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Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

arstechnica.com

411–420 of 516 posts

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#411
post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Along the same lines, most hardware is designed under the assumption that you aren't significantly above sea level. Tons of medium-high voltage electronics have trouble with arcing once it turns on at 6000+ ft.

arcing involves ionizing air, right? I would have expected that the breakdown voltage of air increases with altitude, due to decreasing density of air.

I would guess that it could be due to having more ions in air due to higher radiation levels.

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#412
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The link is mostly a honeypot for Elon Musk haters. I wonder if they have bothered looking at the operating temperatures of other satellite Internet dishes? A simple search will net you heating and cooling devices for satellite dishes. If you face more extreme temperatures, you need only go buy a heating and cooling unit. http://www.dishcamo.com/dish_heater.htm

Why are you showing links to heaters? You ask if other manufacturers have this problem, then you provide links to the exact opposite problem which is freezing temperatures. The answer to your original question is no, other manufacturers do not shut down anywhere near this temperature.

I replied to my own comment with another manufacturer with this problem. You are right that my link was to deicing but another comment said that randomes are a maritime solution to both heating and cooling.

Oh, and apparently there are heatsinks you can buy for satellite dishes.

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Tokyosat-Radiator-Alu...

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For one you need a sophisticated reverse heat engine This is a very obtuse way of saying “refrigerator”, which is a type of heat pump.. a technology over a hundred years old. The simplest refrigerators/heat pumps are pretty simple — https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absorption_refrigerator

That's a subsystem with three major sections, a working fluid , and its own heat rejection requirements. A resistive heater contains two parts - a properly placed wire and a switch.

Still say “sophisticated reverse heat engine” is a needlessly verbose way of saying refrigerator or heat pump. Also how sophisticated is something that is mass produced for devices sold under $100 in every big box retailer.

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#415
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The link is mostly a honeypot for Elon Musk haters. I wonder if they have bothered looking at the operating temperatures of other satellite Internet dishes? A simple search will net you heating and cooling devices for satellite dishes. If you face more extreme temperatures, you need only go buy a heating and cooling unit. http://www.dishcamo.com/dish_heater.htm

An Elon Musk hater here: Starlink provides an excellent example of a deeper problem I see with new technology vs. traditional infrastructure. We know how to do broadband in rural places. We do it all over the planet. We simply tax income and spend it on infrastructure. Elon Musk (and the likes) see an opportunity to disrupt this simple answer and make money selling a different unproven solution that has the potential…

After investing[0] billions per year in traditional communications companies, we still have people where the only way they can get service is by laying the fiber themselves. States have also been trying to invest in expanding fiber, but traditional companies have been just pocketing the money and blocking anyone else from improving things (eg: google fiber).

Starlink seems to be a very cheap option in comparison, even if it has LoS and overheating problems.

[0]: https://arstechnica.com/tag/rural-broadband/

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Deliberately going forward with something in spite of knowing for certain that it's not fit for purpose is called engineering malfeasance, not arrogance. An argument can be made for both. Malfeasance in that it was a significant and potentially catastrophic engineering tradeoff due to unknown failure modes, and arrogant in that the decision valued company vision over potential consumer safety risks as well as over…

+1. This is something software engineers (of which I am one) often miss-understand about other engineering disciplines. You can totally ship software that you know will run into problems down the line, because you can reasonably expect to solve those challenges and ship updates before they come into play. But when you sell someone a durable good that is expected to last 10-20 years (eg a car) there are a whole host o…

You can still replace parts in physical products. For example, the yellowing screen of the Tesla could have been replaced no questions asked with an automotive version once available. It is just so more expensive due to logistics and assembly.

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#417
post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Along the same lines, most hardware is designed under the assumption that you aren't significantly above sea level. Tons of medium-high voltage electronics have trouble with arcing once it turns on at 6000+ ft.

arcing involves ionizing air, right? I would have expected that the breakdown voltage of air increases with altitude, due to decreasing density of air.

It's actually the opposite (to a point, I think). Higher mean free path means more time to accelerate, then hit and ionize something else. That's how fluorescent tubes maintain discharge a meter long at measly voltages.

Radiation doesn't help either, as sibling commented - it creates ions making the initial breakdown easier, though it shouldn't make a difference for a continuous flow that involves innumerable ions.

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#418
post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Canadian, 32F seems like an oddly high lower limit to me. Things should operate down to at least -40.

Right. Snow tires, 4WD, and engine block heaters should be standard equipment on cars because obviously things should be designed to handle every environment they might reasonably encounter. /s

As a sibling comment points out, block heaters are pretty standard in much of Canada. 4WD is not universal, but if there is a 4WD version of a particular model available, dealers will have a hard time selling the 2WD variant because enough people really do think 4WD is better in the snow. Snow tires are just a waste in the summer. What you do is have two sets of tires and swap them out in spring and fall.

I'm confused by your statement, anyway. Are you saying things shouldn't be designed to handle every environment they might reasonably encounter?

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#419
post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The ends justify the means," is an epitaph on countless headstones. Edit: Here's some food for thought. Tesla was basically forced to admit the display issue because it was so pervasive, and they basically got lucky that their display didn't cause other problems or bigger problems. Just how lucky was Tesla? We know they're willing to take a gamble. Where else did they cut corners or skimp that we just never found ou…

This is a stupid opinion. Its a display screen. Any engineer would look at the failure modes (and it was an engineer, not Elon himself) and go "we might have problems, but given the use case it's not really going to be that bad". Elon companies have plenty of issues but the cadre of people who are insistent every issue is an unforgivable catastrophe are ridiculous. The display screen in my 2004 Prius had the touchscr…

Sure, fine. But the MCU still crashes on my (very yellowed screened) unit regularly, randomly. Right now, that doesn't cause me to crash: autopilot stays engaged. The car continues to function. There's even a low-level beep when autopilot is disengaged, even though all other audio fails. Blinkers still work. Etc.

But the new car has removed the shifter stalk, and moved the controls to the screen. Now, if the screen reboots, I can't place the car into park or reverse. With the shifter, I can push and hold the parking button to engage the emergency brakes on the car. Can't do that if the screen is rebooting. The blinkers are now capacitive touch buttons on the steering wheel. While I imagine they'll stay low level and decoupled from the MCU, I sure hope that's the case.

The yoke is possibly the stupidest thing Tesla has done, ever. So many people are going to end up with completely shattered arms as they get into accidents and have the airbags deployed while they're turning and have their arms crossed. All for what? To look cool to a 13-year-old? Idiotic. And I say this as someone with a MS on order for September which I'm desperately hoping I'll be able to get with the regular wheel. Still bitter about the stalks, though.

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#420
post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Along the same lines, most hardware is designed under the assumption that you aren't significantly above sea level. Tons of medium-high voltage electronics have trouble with arcing once it turns on at 6000+ ft.

arcing involves ionizing air, right? I would have expected that the breakdown voltage of air increases with altitude, due to decreasing density of air.

Here ya go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIqK45nxcTo

He even explained it with balls and magnets!

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