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Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

arstechnica.com

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Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#321

Post by kortex »

dylan604 wrote: post #98
turtletontine wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say maybe places where the air temperature regularly gets to >110 F aren't meant for human habitation

What's your definition of "regularly"? You're probably ruling out most of the US southwest. I made the same comment about people living in areas that are routinely >90% humidity, mosquito infested jungles and was totally slammed for it. People moving to those locations are the odd ducks to me. People born and raised there don't have a choice.

Really, it's not "don't live there," as humans have inhabited these conditions for thousands of years. But "don't live there and expect the same standard of living."

Contrast living in an adobe house/masonry house with no AC, taking a siesta/riposa in the hottest hours, and tolerating a bit of sweat, vs in-ground pool, AC set to 68, driving around mid-day in a rolling greenhouse.

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#322

Post by ClumsyPilot »

swiley wrote: post #226
ganoushoreilly wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surprisingly, the heating element built in appears to be pretty solid, or at least that's been the responses on /r/starlink. You're definitely right that people are hating on it. Most of the people I know in real life that knocked it have access to land based internet. Once you get out into rural areas where 4g is the basis for your internet, it's amazing.

And it's not like 4g hotspots and old cell phones don't overheat either.

You get an actual 4g router, not a phone, and they actually worknwell

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#323

Post by slipframe »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #294
babesh wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The link is mostly a honeypot for Elon Musk haters. I wonder if they have bothered looking at the operating temperatures of other satellite Internet dishes? A simple search will net you heating and cooling devices for satellite dishes. If you face more extreme temperatures, you need only go buy a heating and cooling unit. http://www.dishcamo.com/dish_heater.htm

That's a de-icing system. Starlink dishes have the opposite problem, they get too hot because they have to dissipate 100 watts electric energy plus the heat from the sun and the nearby rooftop. OK, maritime outfitters will sell you a climatized radome, which will set you back a few grand. Proper engineering costs money (can't have radar fail in the middle of the Strait of Malacca), and that's why Elon relies on his a…

> OK, maritime outfitters will sell you a climatized radome, which will set you back a few grand.

To be fair, isn't the maritime market a bit like the aviation market, where a pack of 6 disposable AA batteries potted in a pack will cost you $43? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1YjGLwfYSQ&t=37)

On land with a good supply of fresh water (so, not in drought regions) I think you could probably cool a dish for a few dollars of parts with an open-loop cooling system. I'm not sure how much water you would actually need though, it might be an unconscionable waste in the regions that are prone to these sort of temperatures in the first place.

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#324

Post by azernik »

catblast01 wrote: post #307
m4rtink wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, in general cooling something down is much more complicated than heating it up. For one you need a sophisticated reverse heat engine, for the other a piece of wire with high enough resistance.

> For one you need a sophisticated reverse heat engine This is a very obtuse way of saying “refrigerator”, which is a type of heat pump.. a technology over a hundred years old. The simplest refrigerators/heat pumps are pretty simple — https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absorption_refrigerator

That's a subsystem with three major sections, a working fluid, and its own heat rejection requirements. A resistive heater contains two parts - a properly placed wire and a switch.

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#325

Post by [deleted] »

devit wrote: post #283
kortex wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly the whole "agile" vs traditional/waterfall mentality, scooters before motorcars, etc., put into practice. Hardware is hard . > It's also completely possible that the parts simply aren't available Fun fact: they don't make (commercially available) GPUs, NICs, pretty much any PC components rated below 0°F. If you need to design a system which needs to sit in an aircraft in Deadhorse, Alaska, you either…

You could also add a heater.

[deleted]

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#326

Post by birdyrooster »

devit wrote: post #283
kortex wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly the whole "agile" vs traditional/waterfall mentality, scooters before motorcars, etc., put into practice. Hardware is hard . > It's also completely possible that the parts simply aren't available Fun fact: they don't make (commercially available) GPUs, NICs, pretty much any PC components rated below 0°F. If you need to design a system which needs to sit in an aircraft in Deadhorse, Alaska, you either…

You could also add a heater.

Which is what Google does in at least one of its data centers.

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#327

Post by eyegor »

kortex wrote: post #260
jrockway wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that everyone on the team missed the fact that electronics get hot outdoors in the summer. Rather, they probably chose to launch a product that breaks when it gets hot, because it's an easy problem to fix later. Now that something is out in the field, they can debug their network, satellites, RF hardware, installation instructions, management applications, and figure out what kind of customers want to buy thi…

This is exactly the whole "agile" vs traditional/waterfall mentality, scooters before motorcars, etc., put into practice. Hardware is hard . > It's also completely possible that the parts simply aren't available Fun fact: they don't make (commercially available) GPUs, NICs, pretty much any PC components rated below 0°F. If you need to design a system which needs to sit in an aircraft in Deadhorse, Alaska, you either…

Along the same lines, most hardware is designed under the assumption that you aren't significantly above sea level. Tons of medium-high voltage electronics have trouble with arcing once it turns on at 6000+ ft.

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#328

Post by jagger27 »

s0rce wrote: post #295
aaronmdjones wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Automotive-grade LCDs don't burn out and melt at the temperatures commonly found in ... well, automotive environments. Like your car sitting in a tarmac car park all day in sunny weather with the windows closed.

Tell that to my 2012 Suzuki SX4 radio LCD, it won't work when its warm out.

I've seen my 2017 Mazda LCD go into protection mode a few times. It also dims before that stage.

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#329

Post by azernik »

mcguire wrote: post #51
gspr wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I agree: the bug here is humans building giant cities in the desert.

Like southern California?

Palm Springs? Yeah. The Inland Empire? Eeeeeh.

The LA Basin, OC, and San Diego? No. Their temperatures are kept much more sane by the ocean, and agriculture is the real problem for the water budget.

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#330

Post by nine_k »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #317
jrockway wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that everyone on the team missed the fact that electronics get hot outdoors in the summer. Rather, they probably chose to launch a product that breaks when it gets hot, because it's an easy problem to fix later. Now that something is out in the field, they can debug their network, satellites, RF hardware, installation instructions, management applications, and figure out what kind of customers want to buy thi…

" Would it be worth blocking all those projects another 3 months just so that some guy in Arizona gets more Internet uptime on the hottest day of the year?" Umm, yes?

A few hundred thousand guys from less overheated areas might politely disagree.
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