Why more women identify as sexually fluid than men • Hacker News Board

Re: Why more women identify as sexually fluid than men

#81

Post by jt0 » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 2:45 AM UTC

zozbot234 wrote: post #48

nicoburns wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Could it be that traditional gender roles are socially adaptive and comfortable for the majority of men - and for that matter, also for many women I think so. But the key word there is majority . I think it might well be a majority, but I don't think it's anything like an overwhelming one (ie.. more like 60% than 99%). That still leaves an awful lot of people for who this organisation doesn't work particularly well…

> Or at least, I think it needs to be recognised that it is not as simple as men having one set of inclinations and women another. Of course there's a lot of variance in how these gender roles might play out individually. Where I see some potential issues and pushback is largely with the common tendency in these movements, of wanting to throw out gender roles altogether. Again, a key majority of people would find thi…

> Many people want to be told what they might comfortably be expected to do

Sounds like Queer Liberation is for you! This is very common, and there are very traditional roles for this in my community. I know plenty of ladies who will tell their partners what they are comfortably expected to do. It's a high consent environment, so you still ultimately have the right to choose differently.

Re: Why more women identify as sexually fluid than men

#82

Post by bluefirebrand » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 2:55 AM UTC

krapp wrote: post #55

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's frustrating is that the term "toxic masculinity" describes something very real. Unfocused masculine energy can drive very negative behavior, from hypersexuality to aggression to the desire of dominance and extreme novelty seeking. But describing it under the term "toxic masculinity" destroys conversation because of the implication that all masculinity is bad, which is just not the case. It's much like talking…

> But describing it under the term "toxic masculinity" destroys conversation because of the implication that all masculinity is bad, which is just not the case. Except "toxic masculinity" is a simple phrase that clearly and unambiguously describes a subset of masculinity as having the trait of toxicity, in the same way "red paint" doesn't refer to all paint, but a subset of paint that is red. If I describe a "toxic m…

> Except "toxic masculinity" is a simple phrase that clearly and unambiguously describes a subset of masculinity as having the trait of toxicity

No, it absolutely comes across as trying to describe all masculinity and people who say that it's clearly only describing a subset of masculinity always come across like they are trying to rationalize away how it sounds.

Re: Why more women identify as sexually fluid than men

#83

Post by perl4ever » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 3:05 AM UTC

walugipnts wrote: post #6

Anecdotally, I lost multiple male friends when I came out as bisexual, so the “fragile masculinity” theory feels especially apt. The fear of being perceived as anything other than heterosexual by association seems to be a big problem with many men.

The problem with analyzing the behavior of other people is that they are usually trying to do the same to you, which throws straight-forward logical assumptions off.

"only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known I was not a great fool; you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me."

Re: Why more women identify as sexually fluid than men

#84

Post by xupybd » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 3:50 AM UTC

kayodelycaon wrote: post #24

tenpies wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do LGBT movements still exist in cultures that were/are very accepting of LBTQ individuals then? Alternatively: why are they completely absent in the countries that need them the most?

You can see them in more accepting countries, but many of those countries were far from accepting before. The US wouldn’t need Black Lives Matter if they actually did. Skin color wouldn’t matter and wouldn’t be part of people’s identity if people weren’t racist.

That's interesting as I see BLM in it's current form increasing the racial divide.

Re: Why more women identify as sexually fluid than men

#85

Post by dragonwriter » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 4:25 AM UTC

xupybd wrote: post #84

kayodelycaon wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can see them in more accepting countries, but many of those countries were far from accepting before. The US wouldn’t need Black Lives Matter if they actually did. Skin color wouldn’t matter and wouldn’t be part of people’s identity if people weren’t racist.

That's interesting as I see BLM in it's current form increasing the racial divide.

Seems to me that they are exacerbating the left/right divide (with the neoliberal center-right facing some internal divides), but not so much the racial divide.

Re: Why more women identify as sexually fluid than men

#86

Post by greenbleach » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 7:03 AM UTC

failwhaleshark wrote: post #54

It's good that more people, which includes women, can live how they want now. I'm a straight, sapio+demisexual (women are pretty, but strangers don't do anything for me), polygynous man with an absurd, irrational sporting interest in piquing interest, foreplay, and seduction, but very rarely closing the bedroom door with an unknown woman or women. I am interested in smart, fun, young (AGR), beauties who tend to be bi…

> Lot of people hate me for this or that, either jealousy or lifestyle judgements.

It's great to live how you prefer, and it's not right for people to hate you for it.

I perceive your self description to be pretentious and creepy. Just an alternate explanation.

Re: Why more women identify as sexually fluid than men

#87

Post by zozbot234 » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 9:26 AM UTC

jt0 wrote: post #81

zozbot234 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or at least, I think it needs to be recognised that it is not as simple as men having one set of inclinations and women another. Of course there's a lot of variance in how these gender roles might play out individually. Where I see some potential issues and pushback is largely with the common tendency in these movements, of wanting to throw out gender roles altogether. Again, a key majority of people would find thi…

> Many people want to be told what they might comfortably be expected to do Sounds like Queer Liberation is for you! This is very common, and there are very traditional roles for this in my community. I know plenty of ladies who will tell their partners what they are comfortably expected to do. It's a high consent environment, so you still ultimately have the right to choose differently.

"Queer liberation" is perhaps one of the best examples of how many activists are choosing to focus on what's 'strange' and 'peculiar' socially (hence, 'queer') over what's mainstream. Why should we care to emphasize the queer so much when that means making what common and thus not queer socially marginalized?

Re: Why more women identify as sexually fluid than men

#88

Post by mountainriver » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 1:02 PM UTC

tenpies wrote: post #19

kayodelycaon wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole LGBT movement and stuff wouldn’t need to exist if people were accepting. People aren’t. And still aren’t. When you actively oppress people for who they are, it’s not surprising it becomes more important.

Why do LGBT movements still exist in cultures that were/are very accepting of LBTQ individuals then? Alternatively: why are they completely absent in the countries that need them the most?

They do for now but that’s just because of history, and the fact that the more esoteric parts of lgbt+ still aren’t fully accepted. As more generations pass it won’t be needed (hopefully)

Re: Why more women identify as sexually fluid than men

#89

Post by pseudalopex » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 7:44 PM UTC

bradleyjg wrote: post #77

pseudalopex wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A survey of Americans found only 10% more men said they would be comfortable with a bisexual partner.[1] And heterosexual men aren't more accepting of homosexuality or bisexuality generally. [1] https://today.yougov.com/topics/relationships/articles-repor...

That’s a thousand basis points, not 10%. It’s 36% more men than women. Unfortunately they don’t have cross tabs, but given the strong falloff starting at baby boomers I wouldn’t be surprised if the differential was even larger if you limit the population to GenX and below.

A basis point is defined as 0.01%. And it isn't used commonly outside finance.

I think I stated it how most people would. To be clear it was 38% of men and 28% of women. The ratio says much less about the world than how low both numbers are.

Older people are more likely to say bisexual men are gay and in denial. Or all men who have sex with men are less masculine. Those stereotypes are more common than equivalent stereotypes about bisexual women. I would be surprised if their relationship preferences didn't reflect that. And those stereotypes illustrate how acceptance isn't just about intimate relationships too.

Re: Why more women identify as sexually fluid than men

#90

Post by vixit » Mon, Jun 21, 2021, 2:04 PM UTC

jlokier wrote: post #69

czbond wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> RE: It seems that I'm missing out something very important, but it really doesn't "click" for me. edit: I'm addressing identity as a whole - not in the context of s3xual preferences. I am no psychologist - but an engineer. I've noticed us engineers aren't feelers. More often we run our interpretation of the world through logic and thinking first, rather than feelings first. Some people are heavy feelers and run ev…

That's not what I've noticed in engineers. What I've noticed most often is engineers, who say they are logical and thinking-first unemotionally, exhibiting: Anger, frustration, anxiety, exasperation, beligerence, smugness, laughter. You've almost certainly met engineers who agitatedly tell you how much they are logical, beligerently "reason" with colleagues, or gleefully put down people they regard as soft and emotio…

claps This is very, very true.

Engineers like to put on a front of "I am an logical being therefore I don't feel emotion like the lesser emotional beings". But they show all sorts of emotions like anger, frustrations, superiority, anxiety, etc.

Our peers just don't have very developed emotional intelligence, and don't view their emotions for what they are.

It's a big blind spot, and I think it is further blinded by the lack of emphasis on emotional intelligence that boys experience in growing up. There's also this odd societal view that you cannot be both emotional and intelligent/logical.