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Why more women identify as sexually fluid than men

bbc.com

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Re: Why more women identify as sexually fluid than men

#31

Post by rvanlaar »

nicoburns wrote: post #11
bradleyjg wrote: post #4

Sex coach and educator Violet Turning, 24, also points out the “fetishisation” of two women having sex or making out, specifically under the male gaze. It’s made same-sexual attraction between women more socially acceptable, albeit for the wrong reasons. Meanwhile, people seem to find notions of two men having sex far less palatable. A 2019 study that looked at attitudes toward gay men and women in 23 countries found…

This quote from the article speaks to that: > “Progress has really been made around the female gender role and less around the male gender role,” says Massey. I think this is a consequence of there being a female-focussed feminist movement, but not an equivalent movement focussed around male empowerment. It means that analyses like these are typically done from a female perspective with all the usual implicit biases…

Well, there are male empowerment movements. Have a look at the documentary The Red Pill by Cassie Jaye.

It's really disingenuous of the article to not look in the mirror and acknowledge what is happening.

What happens when males are the default oppressor, masculinity deemed toxic and male empowerment movements are actively boycotted?

Re: Why more women identify as sexually fluid than men

#32

Post by krapp »

nicoburns wrote: post #11
bradleyjg wrote: post #4

Sex coach and educator Violet Turning, 24, also points out the “fetishisation” of two women having sex or making out, specifically under the male gaze. It’s made same-sexual attraction between women more socially acceptable, albeit for the wrong reasons. Meanwhile, people seem to find notions of two men having sex far less palatable. A 2019 study that looked at attitudes toward gay men and women in 23 countries found…

This quote from the article speaks to that: > “Progress has really been made around the female gender role and less around the male gender role,” says Massey. I think this is a consequence of there being a female-focussed feminist movement, but not an equivalent movement focussed around male empowerment. It means that analyses like these are typically done from a female perspective with all the usual implicit biases…

>I think this is a consequence of there being a female-focussed feminist movement, but not an equivalent movement focussed around male empowerment.

There is an equivalent movement for males. Unfortunately it's been entirely co-opted by red-pillers and incels, and rejects feminism and its arguments categorically.

Re: Why more women identify as sexually fluid than men

#33

Post by walugipnts »

MikeUt wrote: post #21
walugipnts wrote: post #6

Anecdotally, I lost multiple male friends when I came out as bisexual, so the “fragile masculinity” theory feels especially apt. The fear of being perceived as anything other than heterosexual by association seems to be a big problem with many men.

That you lost friends is a fact, that it was due to "fear of association" is speculation, one explanation among many.

It wasn’t speculation, they still associate with other people I know and I have heard the reasoning either directly or indirectly in every case.

Re: Why more women identify as sexually fluid than men

#34

Post by zozbot234 »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #30
bradleyjg wrote: post #4

Sex coach and educator Violet Turning, 24, also points out the “fetishisation” of two women having sex or making out, specifically under the male gaze. It’s made same-sexual attraction between women more socially acceptable, albeit for the wrong reasons. Meanwhile, people seem to find notions of two men having sex far less palatable. A 2019 study that looked at attitudes toward gay men and women in 23 countries found…

> It can’t be that heterosexual men are more tolerant and accepting of bisexual women than heterosexual women are of bisexual men. Granted I'm basing this solely on my experience having grown up a heterosexual man, but that explanation seems absurd. By and large, it has not been the women who have been intolerant of homosexual men, but rather other men.

> By and large, it has not been the women who have been intolerant of homosexual men, but rather other men.

What evidence do you base this on? Women's attitudes have a big effect on social norms, so we certainly can't dismiss them out of hand. And women who seem to have negative attitudes towards male homosexuals obviously exist.

Re: Why more women identify as sexually fluid than men

#35

Post by SkeuomorphicBee »

nicoburns wrote: post #11
bradleyjg wrote: post #4

Sex coach and educator Violet Turning, 24, also points out the “fetishisation” of two women having sex or making out, specifically under the male gaze. It’s made same-sexual attraction between women more socially acceptable, albeit for the wrong reasons. Meanwhile, people seem to find notions of two men having sex far less palatable. A 2019 study that looked at attitudes toward gay men and women in 23 countries found…

This quote from the article speaks to that: > “Progress has really been made around the female gender role and less around the male gender role,” says Massey. I think this is a consequence of there being a female-focussed feminist movement, but not an equivalent movement focussed around male empowerment. It means that analyses like these are typically done from a female perspective with all the usual implicit biases…

> I think this is a consequence of there being a female-focussed feminist movement, but not an equivalent movement focussed around male empowerment. It means that analyses like these are typically done from a female perspective with all the usual implicit biases that come from that.

Yes, in the last few decades we started to see some efforts to create this missing male empowerment movement, but they all seem to end up embracing and heavily leaning on traditional gender roles instead of fighting it. Initially the various efforts seem to run the gamut from conservative reactionary movements to liberal transformative, but as they grow, the more liberal ones seem to always evolve towards a more traditional conservative view.

Re: Why more women identify as sexually fluid than men

#36

Post by nicoburns »

krapp wrote: post #32
nicoburns wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This quote from the article speaks to that: > “Progress has really been made around the female gender role and less around the male gender role,” says Massey. I think this is a consequence of there being a female-focussed feminist movement, but not an equivalent movement focussed around male empowerment. It means that analyses like these are typically done from a female perspective with all the usual implicit biases…

>I think this is a consequence of there being a female-focussed feminist movement, but not an equivalent movement focussed around male empowerment. There is an equivalent movement for males. Unfortunately it's been entirely co-opted by red-pillers and incels, and rejects feminism and its arguments categorically.

Yes. I guess I don't really consider those an equivalent, but something else entirely. While feminism is all about self-reflection and questioning traditional narratives, these movements seem to be mostly about doubling down on them.

Re: Why more women identify as sexually fluid than men

#37

Post by bradleyjg »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #30
bradleyjg wrote: post #4

Sex coach and educator Violet Turning, 24, also points out the “fetishisation” of two women having sex or making out, specifically under the male gaze. It’s made same-sexual attraction between women more socially acceptable, albeit for the wrong reasons. Meanwhile, people seem to find notions of two men having sex far less palatable. A 2019 study that looked at attitudes toward gay men and women in 23 countries found…

> It can’t be that heterosexual men are more tolerant and accepting of bisexual women than heterosexual women are of bisexual men. Granted I'm basing this solely on my experience having grown up a heterosexual man, but that explanation seems absurd. By and large, it has not been the women who have been intolerant of homosexual men, but rather other men.

I didn’t say homosexual men, I said bisexual men.

Which is more common in your experience: men that won’t date bisexual women or women that won’t date bisexual men?

Re: Why more women identify as sexually fluid than men

#38

Post by nicoburns »

rvanlaar wrote: post #31
nicoburns wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This quote from the article speaks to that: > “Progress has really been made around the female gender role and less around the male gender role,” says Massey. I think this is a consequence of there being a female-focussed feminist movement, but not an equivalent movement focussed around male empowerment. It means that analyses like these are typically done from a female perspective with all the usual implicit biases…

Well, there are male empowerment movements. Have a look at the documentary The Red Pill by Cassie Jaye. It's really disingenuous of the article to not look in the mirror and acknowledge what is happening. What happens when males are the default oppressor, masculinity deemed toxic and male empowerment movements are actively boycotted?

As a man, I certainly don't think masculinity is toxic (although of course it can be in extreme forms, like anything). Male empowerment movements on the other hand I have found to be incredibly toxic in practice. There are definitely pockets that aren't, but those seem to be few and far between.

Re: Why more women identify as sexually fluid than men

#39

Post by zozbot234 »

SkeuomorphicBee wrote: post #35
nicoburns wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This quote from the article speaks to that: > “Progress has really been made around the female gender role and less around the male gender role,” says Massey. I think this is a consequence of there being a female-focussed feminist movement, but not an equivalent movement focussed around male empowerment. It means that analyses like these are typically done from a female perspective with all the usual implicit biases…

> I think this is a consequence of there being a female-focussed feminist movement, but not an equivalent movement focussed around male empowerment. It means that analyses like these are typically done from a female perspective with all the usual implicit biases that come from that. Yes, in the last few decades we started to see some efforts to create this missing male empowerment movement, but they all seem to end u…

Could it be that traditional gender roles are socially adaptive and comfortable for the majority of men - and for that matter, also for many women who don't necessarily identify with modern social movements? There seems to be an undercurrent of de-humanization in wanting to uncritically jettison such a key part of the lived experience, and one that's even so deeply linked to our very biological makeup as living beings. If so, it makes sense that we'd be seeing some pushback.

Re: Why more women identify as sexually fluid than men

#40

Post by croon »

tenpies wrote: post #19
kayodelycaon wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole LGBT movement and stuff wouldn’t need to exist if people were accepting. People aren’t. And still aren’t. When you actively oppress people for who they are, it’s not surprising it becomes more important.

Why do LGBT movements still exist in cultures that were/are very accepting of LBTQ individuals then? Alternatively: why are they completely absent in the countries that need them the most?

Why do scarecrows still exist in fields with no birds?

Why are there no scarecrows in fields full of birds, where they would be needed the most?

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