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HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

reuters.com

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Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#161

Post by mschuster91 »

accurrent wrote: post #149
phyalow wrote: post #3

This is another nail in the coffin of the Hong Kong we knew and loved… I was a resident for many years, I witnessed the peaceful protests of 2014, I witnessed horrifying wanton violence in 2019, I witnessed the rapid destruction of the freest laissez faire city state in the world. Above all I feel great sadness for the people of Hong Kong. The CCP cannot tolerate any dissenting voices as a matter of preserving their…

I would politely disagree with you on the G7 front - its all talk and no action. In the end the people who will suffer for the comments made in the G7 are these journalists. The fact is all that has been done is a bunch of talking. The fact is yes there are things which CCP is doing that is very wrong, and yes they have a very low tolerance towards dissent. However, any comment coming from USA and England makes the s…

> Rather than turning anti-China and uber-nationalistic what would dismantle the CCP is to actually work towards winning the hearts of the 1 billion+ population, majority of whom actually have benefited from the CCP's reign.

How is the West supposed to make that happen, against a population that is being actively brainwashed? Almost all ways of entering information into China are censored.

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#162

Post by javajosh »

raxxorrax wrote: post #153
phyalow wrote: post #3

This is another nail in the coffin of the Hong Kong we knew and loved… I was a resident for many years, I witnessed the peaceful protests of 2014, I witnessed horrifying wanton violence in 2019, I witnessed the rapid destruction of the freest laissez faire city state in the world. Above all I feel great sadness for the people of Hong Kong. The CCP cannot tolerate any dissenting voices as a matter of preserving their…

The CCP aren't idiots. They knew the time was right to do it, because in western circles, that were a bit slow to understand the world around them, freedom was not in good graces with political leaders. It was the perfect time to tighten the grip. The G7 was disappointing. It was all talk in my opinion, although there aren't many venues to handle a situation like Hong Kong.

Do you mean that Western leaders started to turn their backs on freedom, too? You are absolutely right, I fear. So much of the talk about China in the West doesn't even mention human rights, just trade imbalance or cyber security. In an age of nuclear detente, I suppose it was inevitable that democracy's most potent opponents would be homegrown. I never considered that this also means abandoning imperiled democracy abroad, but it surely does.

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#163

Post by baybal2 »

accurrent wrote: post #149
phyalow wrote: post #3

This is another nail in the coffin of the Hong Kong we knew and loved… I was a resident for many years, I witnessed the peaceful protests of 2014, I witnessed horrifying wanton violence in 2019, I witnessed the rapid destruction of the freest laissez faire city state in the world. Above all I feel great sadness for the people of Hong Kong. The CCP cannot tolerate any dissenting voices as a matter of preserving their…

I would politely disagree with you on the G7 front - its all talk and no action. In the end the people who will suffer for the comments made in the G7 are these journalists. The fact is all that has been done is a bunch of talking. The fact is yes there are things which CCP is doing that is very wrong, and yes they have a very low tolerance towards dissent. However, any comment coming from USA and England makes the s…

> The problems started when a few people displayed xenophobia towards PRC which unraveled into violence. At this point it became incredibly easy for CCP to smear the protests back home as all they needed to show in their local media was the few instances of violence against PRC nationals,

A nuclear power with 9000 tanks don't need reasons, let alone one which did many worse things with even less remorse.

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#164

Post by mytailorisrich »

blendergeek wrote: post #97
throwaway384028 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont really buy this. HK is apart of China, why should GB be able to dictate Chinese law based on a colony they took from China hundreds of years ago?

> HK is [a part] of China Politically? Physically? Culturally? Morally? Currently Hong Kong is ruled by China. Many in Hong Kong might prefer something different. If the government in Beijing allowed them to, they might choose complete independence. > why should GB be able to dictate Chinese law based on a colony they took from China hundreds of years ago? Why should a government in Beijing be allowed to dictate poli…

> Politically? Physically? Culturally? Morally? Currently Hong Kong is ruled by China. Many in Hong Kong might prefer something different. If the government in Beijing allowed them to, they might choose complete independence.

This ignorance and arrogance actually makes strong action by the central (Chinese) government even more popular and supported by the Chinese public.

Western opinion has somehow been made to believe that HK was somehow not China. This is ridiculous.

HK is physically, historically, culturally, ethnically, morally a part of China that was seized by a foreign country in the 19th century (hence political separation). In fact, it was not the only piece of China to suffer that fate. That has always been an humiliation and an emotional issue in China (and I include Taiwan in that because this predates the split between PRC and ROC) and it was a very big event when it was "retroceded" back to China by the UK.

China and the Chinese people will not tolerate any interference whatever we might think of their political system (and even whatever they might think of their own political system).

It is pure propaganda in order to destabilise China to claim otherwise and it has certainly worked with a significant portion of the Western public opinion.

The hypocrisy is sometimes laid bare, like during the G7 when it was reported that President Macron said that Northern Ireland was not really part of the UK. This caused an uproar in the UK. Well, HK is arguably more Chinese than Northern Ireland is British.

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#165

Post by ipiz0618 »

accurrent wrote: post #149
phyalow wrote: post #3

This is another nail in the coffin of the Hong Kong we knew and loved… I was a resident for many years, I witnessed the peaceful protests of 2014, I witnessed horrifying wanton violence in 2019, I witnessed the rapid destruction of the freest laissez faire city state in the world. Above all I feel great sadness for the people of Hong Kong. The CCP cannot tolerate any dissenting voices as a matter of preserving their…

I would politely disagree with you on the G7 front - its all talk and no action. In the end the people who will suffer for the comments made in the G7 are these journalists. The fact is all that has been done is a bunch of talking. The fact is yes there are things which CCP is doing that is very wrong, and yes they have a very low tolerance towards dissent. However, any comment coming from USA and England makes the s…

The thing is, the Hong Kong government didn't give a shit to peaceful protests. After 1 million people protested peacefully on 9th June 2019, the official response from the government was "The Second Reading debate on the Bill will resume on June 12.". All these people were ignored. It made people realise they need something else to make the government respond.

People only vandalised at first. Some actions by protesters were over the top to outsiders, but they came after many peaceful protests and after police and triads colluded to attack protesters[2] (the producer of this documentary was arrested and charged). Protesters had to protect themselves at least at first.

In short, China tolerated peaceful protests in Hong Kong for a reason - they did no damage, and the government could safely ignore them and pretend Hong Kong still had autonomy. Once they had impact, authorities were quick to silence the people by any means.

[1] - https://www.info.gov.hk/gia/general/201906/09/P2019060900587...

[2] - https://www.rthk.hk/tv/dtt31/programme/hkce/episode/706428?l...

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#166

Post by mschuster91 »

ivalm wrote: post #152
dankboys wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China are probably judging the chances of a US response based on the response when Assad breached POTUS’ red line: nothing.

I hate Xi but what exactly do you want the US to do other than a strongly worded proclamation?

Invest into manufacturing and infrastructure on US, European, African and Southern American soil. The leverage that China has is that way too many Western nations and companies have both their supply chain and the only market that is growing in China.

By investing into a "Western New Belt Road" - not just in terms of infrastructure, but also in other measures like stabilization by drying out the market of drug cartels via legalization or military peacekeeping operations - the EU, India and US combined could turn the tide against China.

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#168

Post by baybal2 »

xwolfi wrote: post #39
phyalow wrote: post #3

This is another nail in the coffin of the Hong Kong we knew and loved… I was a resident for many years, I witnessed the peaceful protests of 2014, I witnessed horrifying wanton violence in 2019, I witnessed the rapid destruction of the freest laissez faire city state in the world. Above all I feel great sadness for the people of Hong Kong. The CCP cannot tolerate any dissenting voices as a matter of preserving their…

While I agree, as a current resident, I also witnessed the insane destructive behavior of Apple Daily, who did exagerate quite a bit the situation and was far from a neutral observer. I'd even say that telling kids the police murdered 2000 people was not exactly helping them strategize rather than throw themselves in desperate waves at the police... These guys all pushed the situation towards a point of no return for…

> These guys all pushed the situation towards a point of no return for the communists, which could have been instead worked around.

It couldn't have been worked around. It doesn't work this way. There is no other way, in 2048, or in 2022, no other way around. That's the goal of Beijing. Tell us if it's something else.

On other hand, if HK turns into mini-Syria, it would've mobilised way more people, even the most inert, and apolitical.

For Beijing, it will also be a guaranteed loss both ways then. They lose 2048, and HK on the platter as it is, with its access to world financial markets. I believe only a scare of this kind have a chance to make Beijing to back off.

Third, HK is the seat of Western money in Asia. If the bank where their money is will literally burn to the ground, at least then they would've not pretend that nothing happens.

Some times, a solution to violence, is bigger violence.

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#169

Post by _tik_ »

bennysomething wrote: post #133
_tik_ wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This happened under British Hong Kong too. The British never tolerate dissenting voice.The 1960 and 1967 protest, the British label it as Riot, end in violence too. I think Hong Kong can only be peaceful if they solve the huge inequality. The image of wealth and poverty living side by side is very dystopian.

This is just utter nonsense, and I say this as someone who grew up in northern Ireland. So you think HK will be better when it's more equal?

I am not really familiar with Northern Ireland and how it relates to Hong Kong. Most of youngster in HK are quite pessimistic on their economic future. Working hours are long. Houses are very expensive, small and crowded. The strange things is most of the population don't speak English but in corporate the language are English. This make a lot of locals was overlooked in Job Promotion.

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#170

Post by astrange »

aatharuv wrote: post #89
astrange wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If that's the case we would see an effort to reverse those wrongs by reverting all the economic benefit that America gained at the expense of Native Americans. Note that, like LatinX, Native Americans is something only white people say. They call themselves Indians. Activist/government terms usually end up kind of patronizing for some reason. (And they were called Indians before people from India were called that.)

India has been used in the English language for over 1,000 years, and in Latin and before that Greek for at least 1,500 years before that, along with Indian and its equivalents in other languages. This was of course well before anyone used the word "Indian" to refer to Native Americans.

Even before America was discovered, "the Indies"/Indians/indios was used to refer to Ethiopia as well as India. They didn't have very clear ideas of where things were but that also suggests it was just meant to refer to any tropical area.

Or you can use backformation and say it's short for Indigenous.

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