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HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

reuters.com

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Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#61

Post by ajkdhcb2 »

jussij wrote: post #45
ajkdhcb2 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australia has been doing raids like this for some time, they are even ahead of HK

The raids are just the tip of the iceberg, as the Australia judicial system now shares characteristics of those found in secret states like Russia. Who would have thought in Australia someone could be prosecuted and jailed by a secret court. That is exactly what happened to Witness J: https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/nov/22/act-j...

Wow that's insane. This was an interesting read, the most info I could find: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-05/witness-j-revealed-se...

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#62

Post by hohohmm »

artificialLimbs wrote: post #37
hohohmm wrote: post #25

Well deserved. Apple Daily is not pro democrazy but pro-chaos. It routinely manufatures fake news and rumors that only matched by the mainstream fake news. I'm all for pro democrazy. But there is a clear line between pushing a democratic agenda for the benefit of Hong Kong people and that of provoking dissidents at any opportunity possible with whatever means possible, to foster agendas by local tycoons and foreign i…

>> It routinely manufatures fake news and rumors... For which there is and should be plenty of room in a functioning society that is free to voice its opinion, however "pro-chaos".

I guess even the lowest bar of news integrity is an optional choice when it comes to Hong Kong?

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#63

Post by potatofarmer45 »

alisonatwork wrote: post #32
dragonsh wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hong Kong (not even China!) Hong Kong is China since 1997 with same nationality law that's the reason its called one country and two systems. Obviously the thin layer between two system is getting thinner, because like any law, basic law can be interpreted to suite the needs of how the two systems should be. I believe all of this is happening given China does not want to be another USSR. Hong Kong was used as a lau…

What city in the USSR was equivalent to Hong Kong? I am not aware of any cities in the USSR that enjoyed freedom of the press and an independent judiciary at the level that Hong Kong did prior to the NSL crackdowns.

[flagged]

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#64

Post by est »

Wolfenstein98k wrote: post #20

Hong Kong is dead, and the CCP killed it. Daily reminder that the Chinese Government should never ever be trusted. China agreed not to touch Hong Kong's system politically or economically until at least 2047. They couldn't manage even half of that, and there are now many Hong Kongers sitting in jail for the "crime" of supporting democracy in Hong Kong (not even China!), which was made illegal by the CCP under "nation…

> China agreed not to touch Hong Kong's system politically or economically until at least 2047.

China just kept the good ol' colonial system rolling.

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#65

Post by potatofarmer45 »

philliphaydon wrote: post #23
dragonsh wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the US, Japan, Canada, GB, AUS, the EU need to band together to counter China’s egregious rights abuses Countries living in glass houses cannot throw stones on others. Moreover each country has it's own flaws, so before asking others to correct each one of them needs to correct themselves (like those countries ruling establishment in China enjoy majority support and minority like in any system democratic or communi…

> ruling establishment in China enjoy majority support We don’t know the support because anyone who dares to speak up is silenced. People are too scared to say they don’t like the government. The claim is that the CCP has 95% approval rating. But the local governments have a 10% approval rating. The local governments are The Central government. Nothing the local governments do is done without The Central governments…

This 95% has as much credibility as Kim Jong Il's 36 round golf score.

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#66

Post by adventured »

Clewza313 wrote: post #44
adventured wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no actions the US, EU, Japan & Co. can collective take that will alter China's political system from the outside. It's why whenever people talk about ganging up on China, they're always extremely vague about it. That's because it's entirely bunk. Do something! What? Something! Do a thing! Which thing? The thing! It's identical to bumper stickers that (used to) say: Save Tibet, it's largely empty virtue sign…

The obvious counterweight to China is India, which has a similar population and a rapidly growing economy. However, they're several decades behind China on all fronts (economy, wealth, education, infrastructure, you name it) and with Modi at the helm and COVID continuing to wreak havoc it's entirely plausible that they go into reverse gear again.

India offers no counterweight in the next few decades. They offer considerable further weight, that much is true.

As you note, they're running decades behind. There's some hope that the West & Co. can bolster India, accelerate their ability to help stand up to China in the region. The US will need all the help it can get, as it will be unable to continue to serve that role on its own. When the US was 10 to 1 or 5 to 1 vs China, as in the past (1970-2005), it was still not an easy task to wrestle with them; when the US is 1 to 1 vs China (and in their backyard), forget about it.

It's just an incredible gap for India though. By the time India gets to $5 trillion in GDP (from $3t now), China will be up at $22-$23 trillion or so, and far larger than the EU. The US adds an economy the size of Japan or Germany every seven or eight years and it's still not enough to counter China.

India realistically can't help any more than Japan does. It's a modest push-back potential, some limited regional containment. China does at least value having a veneer of global respect. All authoritarian systems want others to pretend they're moral, to pretend that they deserve respect. They always crave that. That's why the USSR and North Korea always wanted recognition from the US, they crave that fake uneared stature, which they can earn no other way with their type of system (systems that rule solely through extreme violence and force, rather than through any manner of democracy and human rights).

Besides all the economic matters, nobody is going to full-on war with China, and that includes India. I just don't see what significant difference India makes, unless we're talking about the year 2070. Certainly it's far better to have India as added weight on the scales, but it still doesn't matter in terms of altering China's thinking or behavior. The other problem, is that India really can't offer much assistance in restraining China in the Asia Pacific region, which is where most of China's more serious ambitions are in the next few decades.

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#67

Post by alau1218 »

neverminder wrote: post #41
dcolkitt wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right to govern extends from the consent of the governed. It's not a question of who "should" own Hong Kong based on some centuries old history. It's a question of who the people of Hong Kong choose to govern them. Had an open referendum been held in 1997, it's almost certainly the case that the citizenry would not have voted to return to the tutelage of the dictatorship in Beijing.

This is something I don't understand as well. Why didn't Hong Kong choose to become an independent state when they had the chance? They could have thrived like Singapore does.

CCP didn't allow Hong Kong people to choose. They didn't even allow Hong Kong people to participate in the hand over negotiation.

Remember CCP is a group of savage dictators and does not embrace the Western values, such as respect, equality, that are familiar to us.

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#69

Post by hungryhobo »

jollybean wrote: post #42
xwolfi wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree, as a current resident, I also witnessed the insane destructive behavior of Apple Daily, who did exagerate quite a bit the situation and was far from a neutral observer. I'd even say that telling kids the police murdered 2000 people was not exactly helping them strategize rather than throw themselves in desperate waves at the police... These guys all pushed the situation towards a point of no return for…

We don't cry tears because of the kind of journalism, we cry tears because it was on some level journalism or at minimum freedom of expression and the clampdown means the same it will happen to you if you try that route. Anyone who contradicts Putin and gets any stickiness or popularity ends up dead. You don't have to agree with Putin's antagonists to realize why that is bad.

tell that to twitter or facebook

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#70

Post by potatofarmer45 »

o-__-o wrote: post #13

I was watching HK Apple Daily since the Hong Kong protests and lately a few of their latest videos have been showing up in my feed. While I’ve stopped watching, the thumbnails look incendiary in nature so seeing this happen is not surprising considering the news security law

Every time any Chinese diplomat opens their mouth, something incendiary comes out these days. There will be books written in the future and these times will be used an example on how to lose friends fast. The absolute reverse of soft power.
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