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Kids need freedom, too

persuasion.community

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Re: Kids need freedom, too

#371

Post by mips_avatar »

meristohm wrote: post #368
mips_avatar wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think cycling is one of those things where it’s important to do it in spite of Canamerica being such a bad place for it, every person cycling normalizes it and pushes indirectly for positive change. Of course it’s also important to directly push for change in city government.

A few exceptions from my experience, where the cycling is okay (more space on the shoulder than Japan, but also larger vehicles): Madison , WI; Tucson, AZ; and Minneapolis, MN. I’ve put more time into bicycling as transportation than most other optional activities I can think of (other than walking, reading, videogames?). San Diego, CA boasted of many miles of bike lanes, but we found them often not connected, dumpin…

I don't want the perfect to be the enemy of the good, but road shoulders aren't safe cycling/pedestrian spaces. Roads have the shoulders as a run off space for cars travelling at speed, so only having the option of cycling on the shoulder (car run off space) is a bad option that cities need to remedy. Painting the shoulder a "cycling lane" doesn't solve this either, it doesn't change the infrastructure at all it just reminds drivers of their responsibility to safety.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#372

Post by meristohm »

smoldesu wrote: post #262
CalRobert wrote: post #154

It's great to allow your kids to take risks, and we do this with our own as much as we can (they're 1 and 3, so "within reason" is still doing some heavy lifting. I pick ticks off of them now and then and patch up their share of bruises). But fundamentally, what I want most is to be somewhere my kids can ride bikes or walk alone to school, to friends, to the shop, etc. from the age of 7 or so. As best I can tell that…

I live in a relatively rural area of America, and I still can't even fathom letting a kid ride their bike to school. I certainly wouldn't be comfortable riding more than a mile along any side roads, not to mention any city streets or main roads. America is really just not made for cyclists (not that I am one).

Familiarity can lead to feeling safer, even if nothing else changes. I’m comfortable on a bicycle, but in a new place I’m more on-guard until the route feels known.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#373

Post by meristohm »

sjwalter wrote: post #297
sjg007 wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My kids figured this out... I think the solution is that you have to be consistent and both parents have to back each other up. Some people say that you should setup house rules and let the kids help set them up that way they have ownership. The other thing would be to go to therapy. We don't teach people how to be parents but there is a lot of applied child development skills you can learn.

It is shocking to me how often I hear the advice "go to therapy". Therapy presents its own risks, often never discussed. And it screams of a total lack of self confidence.

Having a disinterested third party to talk to saves my friends and family and internet forums from much of my babble (some clearly gets through:), and it’s a safer place to take risks and grow. The Blindboy Podcast promotes cognitive behavior therapy and other tools one can use on their own vs anxiety and depression, and I’m transitioning away from talk therapy towards these tools. The therapist was pivotal along the way.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#374

Post by meristohm »

nikolay wrote: post #136
chairmanwow1 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the way people view pets is pretty inhumane. It just seems so thoroughly selfish to purchase an animal bred to be provide you joy.

I have to agree - maybe outside of dogs, all other pets are not happy. For example, how can "fixing" cats be acceptable?! Just because we don't want to allow cats to mate and inconvenience ourselves, we "fix" them and everybody seems okay with it! How is this not animal cruelty by the book?! Cats grow obese and feel miserable. I've had cats, I let them go in and out, they lived fruitful lives and were not forced to c…

There are so many people, and some of us have cats and dogs. Cats kill a lot of birds (and mice and rats—-maybe a good reason to have a cat on a farm) and don’t give much back to the ecosystem. Cat and dog poop adds pollution to land and waterways if not picked up (some is okay, but it doesn’t scale well). I love our dog and feel this non-human person is family. I’m also sad for him not being free to roam and track down deer, elk, bears, coyotes, and potentially end up injured or dead. We run with him often, set boundaries, share affection, and I’m not sure I want to subject another animal to this captivity after he dies. I’d like to switch to helping the land I’m on be more diverse and robust, with healthier soil, more insects, more birds, more mammals (with measures taken to keep rodents out of the house), and to spend time observing this as a way to get me outside.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#375

Post by betwixthewires »

ip26 wrote: post #165
betwixthewires wrote: post #125

I thought this article would be about other things judging from the title, but these are good points. I'm not that old, and I remember "be home before dark" when I was in the single digits. I was going outside, by myself, since about the age of 5. As soon as I could ride a bike that was it. Basically my parents made dinner and paid the rent, the rest was all me in my own life. There was a phase in my childhood where…

Basically my parents made dinner and paid the rent, the rest was all me in my own life This is not really the relationship I aspire to have with my children.

But it's the relationship they need from you. You don't create them for you, you create them for them.

It's not literally I had no relationship with my parents. They got me ready for school in the morning, my mom and I had inside jokes, we spent time together, we went to the grocery store, I had homework. But from the minute I was headed to school until the sun went down most days I was out in the world by myself.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#376

Post by betwixthewires »

nomel wrote: post #145
betwixthewires wrote: post #125

I thought this article would be about other things judging from the title, but these are good points. I'm not that old, and I remember "be home before dark" when I was in the single digits. I was going outside, by myself, since about the age of 5. As soon as I could ride a bike that was it. Basically my parents made dinner and paid the rent, the rest was all me in my own life. There was a phase in my childhood where…

> Kids don't go outside because there's no kids outside. I don't think it's that simple. If you let your kids outside, away from your supervision, there's a very real (absolutely certain, where I live) risk of the police getting involved.

Where I live that's not really a worry and you still don't see children outside all that much by themselves, not like when I was a kid. You see a couple every now and then, when I was little outside belonged to the kids after school let out.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#377

Post by panopticon »

raverbashing wrote: post #338
panopticon wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then there's the press which lives by sensationalizing every bad thing that happens, leading us to grossly exaggerate risk levels in our society. Humans are really bad at assessing risk. Parents are more likely to be afraid of a stranger kidnapping their child when their child is far more likely to die on the car ride to school. Which is sad when you think about how suburbs are designed to make people feel safe eve…

Well, the roads are safe (for cars). For pedestrians, it's mostly barely adequate.

> Well, the roads are safe (for cars).

Not necessarily. Your risk of being in a fatal car accident is nearly 3x higher on suburban roads than urban roads.

This is a good video on the deficiencies of suburbia road design if you're curious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORzNZUeUHAM

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#378

Post by closeparen »

mips_avatar wrote: post #200
retrohomearcade wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of kids ride their bikes to my daughters elementary school, where we live in the United States. Safe small towns with functional sidewalks, for kids to ride bikes on as necessary, still happily exist in some places in our nation.

Where you live can the kids get to anything other than single family housing? Because there are definitely suburbs in the US with low enough traffic to be safe, but they don’t allow important freedoms like biking to schools/libraries/shops

Built before WWII is the key. Inner-ring streetcar suburbs tend to have some local resources: schools, parks, library, small overpriced shops. Anything after 1945, forget it.

Some metro areas demolished all of theirs, or developed too late to have built any. Rust Belt is surprisingly rich with them.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#379

Post by kelnos »

sixothree wrote: post #206
betwixthewires wrote: post #125

I thought this article would be about other things judging from the title, but these are good points. I'm not that old, and I remember "be home before dark" when I was in the single digits. I was going outside, by myself, since about the age of 5. As soon as I could ride a bike that was it. Basically my parents made dinner and paid the rent, the rest was all me in my own life. There was a phase in my childhood where…

Gen X here. I started riding my bike in my neighborhood as soon as my next door neighbor took off the training wheels. It was a small neighborhood with clear boundaries. But as soon as I was 10 and 11 I was leaving to visit friends. I was thinking back recently to one forgotten friend who lived about 1.5 miles away and the pathway I would have taken to his house. It involved crossing two 6-lane divided highways and a…

> I was safe and patient. But I would be aghast to see it in action today.

Do you think that's because you believe things are less safe now than when you were a kid? Or is it because societal norms around risks & children have changed?

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#380

Post by prawn »

hpoe wrote: post #100

I know this is another, back in my day story but I think it is relevant. Back in the early 2000's when I wasn't even 10 my parents sent me to spend a week or two with my grandparents who owned 40 acres up in the pacific northwest. The biggest adaptation for me was after breakfast Grandma told us to go outside and that we weren't allowed back in until the temperature had hit 100. It was a little bit uggh for the time,…

I think these discussions are much more useful if split into urban/rural and have/don't-have children. Because roaming a remote private property is very different from "walk solo to school in an urban environment flooded with cars". And theoretical parenting based on scenarios 30 years ago are different to now. (I have three children and my primary concern: cars.)

My in-laws have a large property also, here in Australia. Beside the dams, you'd have to be unlucky/reckless to get yourself in trouble in the rest. Our 3yo was roaming around this weekend just been and it is a large enough space that she didn't get near the main driveway or up the track to the dams. But even then, it would be a different question in summer where the place is all long grass and venomous snakes are spotted.

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