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Kids need freedom, too

persuasion.community

141–150 of 391 posts

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My take is myopia can be effectively treated with an inexpensive and non-invasive device Like what? >while LASIK comes with significant risk of causing different kinds of visual impairments that cannot be treated The numbers behind LASIK (and PRK) are pretty solid such that one can make an objective claim that it is a low risk endeavor unless you have some specific conditions. Here is one study: https://www.ncbi.nl…

Glasses or contact lenses Low risk -> that paper's definition of "safety" is whether people had good eyesight. It doesn't take into account halos or dry eyes, as far as I can tell.

[deleted]

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#142
post #2

I'm having this issue a bit with my wife. I want my 9-yr old daughter to go to the playground a couple blocks away on her own; my wife is reluctant. My argument is that it's statistically very safe, especially in our neighborhood, and that we and her older brothers all did similar things. Her argument is that a girl needs to be more cautious than a boy, and that although she knows it's unlikely anything bad would hap…

It's the "John Walsh" effect. His son's kidnapping was all over the news and then later he had "America's Most Wanted" and he literally started scaring people from allowing their kids out of their sight. To this day, people still think their kid is going to be abducted if they let them go play.

I remember being 9 and riding my bike miles away to the mall and back. Kids can't do that anymore.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#143
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Working mother" was a non-existent thing. It very much was but not at the relative income level most of HN is at or was raised in so people forget about it.

We must be talking about two very different decades. In the 1950s, which is generally the time people think to when talking about the "good old days" the number of women in the workforce was 27%. It had very little to do with income level. Both of my parents grew up dirt poor, both of them had mothers who stayed home. As the children were old enough to all be attending school, one of my grandma's got a job at the ele…

It was 34%. Which is quite literally one in three women.

Labor participation of men was much higher, but it is absurd to claim that 34% represents nearly non existent phenomenom.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My take is myopia can be effectively treated with an inexpensive and non-invasive device Like what? >while LASIK comes with significant risk of causing different kinds of visual impairments that cannot be treated The numbers behind LASIK (and PRK) are pretty solid such that one can make an objective claim that it is a low risk endeavor unless you have some specific conditions. Here is one study: https://www.ncbi.nl…

Glasses or contact lenses Low risk -> that paper's definition of "safety" is whether people had good eyesight. It doesn't take into account halos or dry eyes, as far as I can tell.

My feeling has always been... I've been wearing soft contacts for decades--and now multifocals. I do wear reading glasses for, well, reading and other close work when I have the contacts in. (Probably more than I really need to.) So maybe LASIK is super-safe at this point but, honestly, there's very little about my current situation that inconveniences me in any appreciable way.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#145

I thought this article would be about other things judging from the title, but these are good points. I'm not that old, and I remember "be home before dark" when I was in the single digits. I was going outside, by myself, since about the age of 5. As soon as I could ride a bike that was it. Basically my parents made dinner and paid the rent, the rest was all me in my own life. There was a phase in my childhood where…

> Kids don't go outside because there's no kids outside.

I don't think it's that simple. If you let your kids outside, away from your supervision, there's a very real (absolutely certain, where I live) risk of the police getting involved.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#146
post #94
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I'm having this issue a bit with my wife. I want my 9-yr old daughter to go to the playground a couple blocks away on her own; my wife is reluctant." ... "We're planning to compromise by letting her do it, but only after we get her her first phone." I hesitate to enter into child rearing discussions but ... May I suggest a slightly different approach: satisfy your wife by following, secretly, your child at a distanc…

> May I suggest a slightly different approach: satisfy your wife by following, secretly, your child Suspect they already trust their child enough to not need to follow her at all. She's capable. The concern is unforeseen events outside the child's control such as irresponsible drivers, bullies, or worse. None of which is any less likely to happen after you stop following the child. They're not likely to ever happen,…

I agree with your analysis - but this suggestion is for his wife, not the child. It's a way to become comfortable - in a slow and controlled manner - with expanding the range of the child, etc.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#147
post #6

I think the problem "de-risking" childhood is only an instance of the bigger problem of what Roger Scruton calls "Risk De-aggregation". Risk Deaggregation is taking a single point of risk (and its associated metric), and optimizing to reduce that risk as if it exists in isolation from other risks. I.e. Risk occurs in aggregate, not as individual threats. Risk deaggregation happens everywhere from Climate Change polic…

A related way of thinking of these might be legible Vs illegible. Legible risks are mostly "heuristic 1." They can be measured, quantified, discussed in discrete terms. You can be yelled at over legible things, like ignoring stranger danger on a subway. It's harder to yell about nuance. Illegible things are less discrete. The consequences, some hard to describe, many unknown, of growing up without freedom and self re…

> Illegible things are less discreet.

Illegible things are less discrete, but probably more "discreet", on average.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#149
post #6

I think the problem "de-risking" childhood is only an instance of the bigger problem of what Roger Scruton calls "Risk De-aggregation". Risk Deaggregation is taking a single point of risk (and its associated metric), and optimizing to reduce that risk as if it exists in isolation from other risks. I.e. Risk occurs in aggregate, not as individual threats. Risk deaggregation happens everywhere from Climate Change polic…

Humans don't seem to be very good at managing risks. From an evolutionary perspective, we can only look at what others are doing and follow along. Breaking it out in terms of percentage weights doesn't give us a feel for practical steps to take.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My mom used to take the bus into the city when she was 8, spend the day wandering around, and come back on her own time. This was in the 70s with no smartphones. If there was an issue, she could use a pay phone. Her own mother sent her out of the house to get some free time for herself. When I was growing up, I did similar things, taking my 5 year old sister on the public bus with me to get to school when I was 10. I…

Sounds like your grandmother would be getting letters from a social worker if she were a parent today. https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/07/06/vancouver-bus-dad-ki...

I’d rather fight the battle than cripple my own child so they can fit into a pathetic society.
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