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New browser signal could make cookie banners obsolete

dataprotectioncontrol.org

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Re: New browser signal could make cookie banners obsolete

#131

Post by Symbiote »

dmitryminkovsky wrote: post #110
pornel wrote: post #7

Reminder that we've already had a spec for it. In the 90s! And it even has been implemented in the Internet Explorer: https://www.w3.org/P3P/ It did absolutely nothing for privacy. Google has been sending bogus P3P headers that broke IE's implementation and allowed all cookies. Adtech companies don't want users to have an easy opt-out. They didn't want P3P. They didn't want DNT. They will not want this new spec, unle…

> The annoying and confusing cookie banners are a feature. Not just that, but I’ve never seen a cookie banner that does anything. Cookies get sent down with the page on the initial load. Whenever I’ve opened an inspector to see if cookies get unset by JavaScript in response to my “opting out,” I’ve never seen an effect. The same cookies get sent after I opt out: no change. Has anyone seen a cookie preference banner t…

Look at well-funded government or other public websites.

https://www.gov.uk/, https://www.nhs.uk/, https://europa.eu/, https://home.cern/, https://www.bundesregierung.de/ (maybe), https://www.dr.dk/ (maybe).

Re: New browser signal could make cookie banners obsolete

#132

Post by nickpp »

hnarn wrote: post #121
akie wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You want to avoid cookies entirely so that you don't need a cookie policy and that you don't need a cookie banner. It's also significantly easier to convince a lawyer that you don't need these things if you can prove that there are no cookies whatsoever. And even then they'll be suspicious. It's harder than it looks, just embedding a YouTube video for example already sets third-party cookies. Same with embedding a Tw…

> You want to avoid cookies entirely so that you don't need a cookie policy and that you don't need a cookie banner. Wrong. Functional cookies are exempt.

What are "functional cookies"? Are analytics/telemetries cookies functional? Are cookies identifying google users so they can receive targeted content but also ads "functional"?

GDPR never bothered to specify. This is why GDPR is broken and sadly it broke the web.

Re: New browser signal could make cookie banners obsolete

#133

Post by antris »

quotemstr wrote: post #127
antris wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies who track your information, including FAANG get regularly investigated and often fined for violating antitrust laws when they use the data they've gathered to limit or outright kill competition. I find it disingenuous to ask for evidence of some kind of vague "companies controlling people" when it's obvious that they do it on a larger scale all the time. No, companies do not mind control people on an indivi…

> it's not obvious why having the power of putting anything you want in front of billions of people is powerful, then I don't think there's a discussion worth having There it is. It's not about tracking per se. It's really about control over advertising and information dissemination more broadly. Motte: preserving user privacy by blocking cookies Bailey: let's tightly control who can put messages in front of the gene…

Is putting barriers into how huge multinational companies can exploit their data farming to cement an unchallengeable position in the market and kill off competition or dissent within the system "tight control into who can put messages in front of the general public"?

You are framing this as if I am somehow advocating censorship towards people, yet I am advocating the opposite position. Executives shouldn't be given a such huge powers of data mining and information distribution and ability shut powerless opposition and competition out. This is about preserving equal voice to all people, and preventing juggernauts from squashing it.

Re: New browser signal could make cookie banners obsolete

#134

Post by II2II »

pulse7 wrote: post #25
worldsayshi wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless regulators force companies to respect automated protocols.

It is time for the governments to take control back and start regulating BigTech: you can not easily opt-out from any data gathering from Google, Microsoft, Apple, Facebook, ... If you try it and turn it off on mobile phone and desktop you will constantly have issues and be flooded with messages like "turn on location services", etc. Yesterday I learned that my private calendar on my phone was replicated to Google Ca…

I doubt there is an easy fix in cases like Google Calendar due to consumer expectations. Simply put, there are certain types of data that many consumers expect to be synchronised, and those of us who have the opposite expectation (or only want certain data to be synchronised) are likely in the minority.

This is somewhat different from most tracking done on the web, which is done for the exclusive benefit of those doing the tracking.

Re: New browser signal could make cookie banners obsolete

#135

Post by rikroots »

TX0098812 wrote: post #112
rikroots wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The GDPR is an EU Regulation which is, by definition, a binding legislative act. It applies in its entirety across the EU - no exceptions, no opt-outs. EU Member States are allowed to interpret (to a greater or lesser degree) EU Directives when they translate them into national law[1] The EU GDPR no longer applies in the UK because the UK is no longer a member of the EU. The EU GDPR has been incorporated into UK…

'A "directive" is a legislative act that sets out a goal that all EU countries must achieve. However, it is up to the individual countries to devise their own laws on how to reach these goals.'

> A "directive" is a legislative act that sets out ...

Maybe my wording was a bit vague. How about: "The GDPR is an EU Regulation which is, by definition, a binding legislative act which applies in its entirety across the EU without the need for Member States to pass any further national legislation. This is different to EU Directives, which EU Member Sates will implement by translating them into their own national law - which in turn does give Member States room to 'interpret' the Directive's requirements - subject to legal challenge in the Court of Justice of the European Union"

Re: New browser signal could make cookie banners obsolete

#136

Post by fmajid »

permo-w wrote: post #87
qwerty456127 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do they still think we want tracking cookies? Some people do. I would like to see relevant ads (of good special offers especially) if somebody could guarantee the ads are going to be humble and unintrusive), the goods advertised are of high quality and no-scam, the information they get from tracking can not be seen by any 3rd party (including legal authorities) and used for any purpose other than good recommend…

I’m sure you’re right that a small minority doesn’t mind being tracked and provided personalised ads, but there are other problems too. Advertising brings poor incentives for businesses, even worse than usual. Engagement is king, and product satisfaction is hardly relevant

We know how small: 4% clicked to opt-in to IDFA tracking in iOS 14. And I suspect a large number of those are people who got confused and clicked on the wrong button.

Re: New browser signal could make cookie banners obsolete

#139

Post by hnarn »

nickpp wrote: post #132
hnarn wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You want to avoid cookies entirely so that you don't need a cookie policy and that you don't need a cookie banner. Wrong. Functional cookies are exempt.

What are "functional cookies"? Are analytics/telemetries cookies functional? Are cookies identifying google users so they can receive targeted content but also ads "functional"? GDPR never bothered to specify. This is why GDPR is broken and sadly it broke the web.

Have you tried finding the answer to your question online? There are clear examples of what "functional cookies" mean, even straight from the EU.

Re: New browser signal could make cookie banners obsolete

#140

Post by xbar »

sascha_sl wrote: post #15
worldsayshi wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless regulators force companies to respect automated protocols.

This. You can see the impact of this on the new iOS tracking permissions. Most people want to opt out, but can't. Regulators stepping in would spell the end of large sections of the online advertising industry, so I doubt it'll happen.

Regulators in the US do not seem to be completely in the pockets of the online advertisers quite yet, given recent legislation proposals. Regulators in the EU, even less so.
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