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Survey shows people no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life

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Re: Survey shows people no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life

#51

Post by Pxtl »

Well yeah. I live in a city where the housing bubble is so bad that the average home-price-growth over the last 5 years greatly exceeds the average income.

That is, houses made more than people pouring their sweat into their jobs... and those houses accumulate that value just by sitting there and existing, and don't pay income tax (principal residence is 100% exempted in Canada's capital gains system).

With that in mind, why would everybody believe in the value of hard work? When buying at the right place and time is better by every metric?

Re: Survey shows people no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life

#52

Post by altacc »

cousin_it wrote: post #17
hawk_ wrote: post #4

There was a short window of time (anthropological scale) in the western world where this was seemingly true. The American conservative propaganda latched onto it and tricked people into thinking it was true. The fact is whenever quick upward mobility has been possible anywhere for a large number of people, it has been built upon slavery, colonialism and/or cheap imported labour. It was someone else's hard work that w…

> The fact is whenever quick upward mobility has been possible anywhere for a large number of people, it has been built upon slavery, colonialism and/or cheap imported labour. Which of these was responsible for China's rise from poverty?

All of them.

It's certainly true that there are other important factors and I don't think the parent poster's list is exhaustive, but these are crucial factors in China's current rise.

Slavery: we know there are factories inside their "reeducation camps"

Colonialism: Internally, Han Chinese are encouraged to migrate & take over areas of the country where other ethnics groups have traditionally been the majority. Abroad, China is involved in the modern form of colonialism by having direct influence in other countries via economic control.

Cheap imported labour: Definitely cheap labour and I'd say it's a large enough country to consider internal migration as regionally imported labour, with millions migrating from the countryside to factory cities.

Re: Survey shows people no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life

#53

Post by tim333 »

Market forces can work strange ways - you can make a purchase of a house of bitcoin when they were cheap and be set up. You can work your arse off as something like a cleaner and make almost nothing as wages are bid down and the cost of living bid up. I'm not quite sure how to make things fairer.

Re: Survey shows people no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life

#54

Post by thenaturalist »

optimiz3 wrote: post #21

For those that don't read, this is a global population survey, not an American one. If you're American, surprise - you're much more likely to believe work pays off. Won't stop the parade of people with unsubstantiated statements about how much society sucks despite the frankly marvelous QoL advances over the past several hundred years. Also, total sample size is 500. Globally.

Unsubstantiated.... Hm, your comment implies that this parade of people is deliberately ignoring QoL improvements. I think this is not the case. What's important is to remember that everything is relative. For sure QoL has improved significantly. But so has the relative share of wealth of those who already are wealthy.

Look at wealth, not income measures and distribution, let alone how much wealth the richest people consistently added. The pace of this growth outpaces wage growth and has done so, for a long time.

So where does QoL get you when you realize the system you're engaged in is fundamentally not equitable by design and that a small elite has basically decoupled itself entirely from the rest of the world?

Re: Survey shows people no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life

#55

Post by f38zf5vdt »

yathern wrote: post #46
hawk_ wrote: post #4

There was a short window of time (anthropological scale) in the western world where this was seemingly true. The American conservative propaganda latched onto it and tricked people into thinking it was true. The fact is whenever quick upward mobility has been possible anywhere for a large number of people, it has been built upon slavery, colonialism and/or cheap imported labour. It was someone else's hard work that w…

> has been built upon slavery, colonialism and/or cheap imported labour As far as I understand, this is actually a myth - at least the first two. It's a common cynical refrain that the current level of abundance would be impossible without slavery. There are many many places where there has been slavery throughout the years, and they have not ended up richer for it. The American South, where slavery was more prevalen…

Because a country or region has slavery, doesn't mean the those who benefit from said slavery reside in that country or region.

Re: Survey shows people no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life

#56

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

Every morning, I get up at 5, and go for a two-mile walk.

Often, my walk coincides with the route of the garbage collection truck.

Man, those dudes work hard. It makes my shoulders ache, just watching them. They are fast, energetic, efficient, and precise.

Around here, they are generally Latinos, and they have quite high-paying jobs, compared to a lot of their peers. It's a dirty, dangerous job, and the benefits are reserved for the few union members.

I appreciate them, and give them decent tips, but that is barely anything, for the work they do.

I am extremely fortunate. I've worked hard, but I have also had a lot of breaks my way.

Re: Survey shows people no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life

#57

Post by samsquire »

Given that minimum wage in the US has been the same since 2009, I don't think anyone particularly cares about people who do the hard work at the bottom.

Is it any wonder that people notice that nobody cares about them working hard? It just transfers wealth to shareholders.

Re: Survey shows people no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life

#60

Post by throwaway894345 »

wishigotitfree wrote: post #25

Starting conditions (where one was born, levels of wealth and opportunity there, one's parents' education and jobs) are shockingly predictive about an individual's future. Hard work leading to social mobility has always been the exception, not the rule. Most will not beat the odds since if they did, those wouldn't BE the odds. A lot of us are just so deluded by survivorship bias borne of listening only to success sto…

> A lot of us are just so deluded by survivorship bias borne of listening only to success stories, but it seems more and more people are seeing through the illusion.

I don't think we can conclude that from anything. It could just as easily be that our previous optimism was warranted but we've become influenced by a more pessimistic media narrative. To be clear, I don't have a position because there doesn't seem to be enough evidence one way or another.

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