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Fleeing Venezuela

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Re: Fleeing Venezuela

#21

Post by andy_ppp »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #19
andy_ppp wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really hate grouping everyone like this. I consider myself left but you were arguing with a moron. I was under the impression in liberal democracy, even up until maybe 2015 treating an individual as an example of all individuals from that group was considered reprehensible for obvious reasons, i.e. you will end up saying racist or sexist things. The more general rule, to treat everyone on the content of their indiv…

> you were arguing with a moron I'm inclined to agree, but increasingly these "morons" are more numerous and more likely to occupy positions of power and authority. > I was under the impression in liberal democracy even up until maybe 2015 treating an individual as an example of all individuals from that group was considered reprehensible for obvious reasons, i.e. you will end up saying racist or sexist things. Yeah,…

Okay! Lot’s of clarity added…

For what it’s worth we have the same amount of morons just the Internet has given them means to organise and communicate and people like Steve Bannon to weave in a bit of ethnic-nationalism into the minds of the public.

Re: Fleeing Venezuela

#22

Post by rolobio »

Very good read. I have a soft-spot for Venezuela and it's collapse. Its fascinating watching a country make the same mistakes as dozens of countries before them have. History repeats and repeats, even though we have trivial access to it today through the internet.

I always find it odd when people speak of Venezuela never seem to talk about the failures of Socialism. They seem to blame the failures on violence or authoritarian regimes. But how are you supposed to "seize the means of production" without authoritarianism? The author of this article mentions Marxism:

> The Venezuelan government calls itself Marxist, too, but also seems to spend more time dreaming up ways to make a buck than on anything like a revolution.

I would love to hear more of their opinions on Marxism. But this article seemed more about a journey than why the journey was necessary.

Re: Fleeing Venezuela

#23

Post by throwaway-jim »

Wow, I'm surprised that cryptocurrency actually helped him. I can see he cannot make a bank account since he is an illegal alien, but he could still hold and transfer value with the power of the blockchain. Smart move, since he pretty much got robbed of any valuable he had with him. One of the few positive crypto-related news I have heard lately!

Re: Fleeing Venezuela

#24

Post by throwaway894345 »

andy_ppp wrote: post #21
throwaway894345 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you were arguing with a moron I'm inclined to agree, but increasingly these "morons" are more numerous and more likely to occupy positions of power and authority. > I was under the impression in liberal democracy even up until maybe 2015 treating an individual as an example of all individuals from that group was considered reprehensible for obvious reasons, i.e. you will end up saying racist or sexist things. Yeah,…

Okay! Lot’s of clarity added… For what it’s worth we have the same amount of morons just the Internet has given them means to organise and communicate and people like Steve Bannon to weave in a bit of ethnic-nationalism into the minds of the public.

> For what it’s worth we have the same amount of morons just the Internet has given them means to organise and communicate

That seems concerning enough on its own, but that property ("means to organize and communicate") has knock-on effects: those morons become even more extreme and they come to occupy positions of power and authority in even greater numbers.

Once upon a time you had millions of village idiots whose views were moderated by their community and the talking heads on TV, and they were typically blue-collar, uneducated, and had no real power or authority. Now because of the ability to communicate with each other, they develop echo chambers that radicalize their viewpoints. On top of that, they organize, such that the administer universities, overwhelm newsrooms, and lead DEI departments in every major company in the country.

Re: Fleeing Venezuela

#25

Post by tim333 »

merciBien wrote: post #2

This is so painful to read, Venezuela sounds like a failed state, it can’t even provide running water to its people in Ordaz. The daily human toll must be ghastly. How does a country ever get back on a positive trajectory after such a catastrophe?

They got a lot of advice from Cuba on staying in power. I fear Maduro may hang on in there till old age like Castro did.

Re: Fleeing Venezuela

#26

Post by hulitu »

> Around the world, there is now a contest between freedom and tyranny, between the rule of law and the arbitrary exercise of naked power.

Yeah, right. And the glorious state named US is leading the contest.

If political bulshit is not allowed on HN why is such a story with such comments not dead ?

Re: Fleeing Venezuela

#27

Post by tim333 »

throwaway-jim wrote: post #23

Wow, I'm surprised that cryptocurrency actually helped him. I can see he cannot make a bank account since he is an illegal alien, but he could still hold and transfer value with the power of the blockchain. Smart move, since he pretty much got robbed of any valuable he had with him. One of the few positive crypto-related news I have heard lately!

He wrote an earlier article (2019) in the NYT on crypto helping there https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/23/opinion/sunday/venezuela-...

Re: Fleeing Venezuela

#28

Post by xster »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #8
oxymoran wrote: post #6

Remember when everyone in Venezuela was starving and all the American Leftists were trying to defend Maduro and calling one a fascist on Twitter for criticizing Maduro’s regime?

I've probably seen half a dozen "debates" in the last year in which American Leftists were arguing with actual Venezuelans about whether the situation in Venezuela was real or Western Propaganda (TM).

How did you systematically come to the conclusion that those "debates" shouldn't be had? Which straw broke the camel's back? Is it because Carlos on the internet , who writes for The New York Times, The Washington Post, and Americas Quarterly, told you so? How do we take your guidelines and judgement and form it into a framework of rational thought where it then becomes generally applicable to the general population if your guidance wasn't available one day?

Re: Fleeing Venezuela

#29

Post by throwaway9d6ef »

xster wrote: post #28
throwaway894345 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've probably seen half a dozen "debates" in the last year in which American Leftists were arguing with actual Venezuelans about whether the situation in Venezuela was real or Western Propaganda (TM).

How did you systematically come to the conclusion that those "debates" shouldn't be had? Which straw broke the camel's back? Is it because Carlos on the internet , who writes for The New York Times, The Washington Post, and Americas Quarterly, told you so? How do we take your guidelines and judgement and form it into a framework of rational thought where it then becomes generally applicable to the general population…

Because actual Venezuelans are closer to primary sources who don't need a bunch of pseudointellectuals to handwave our experience away.

Re: Fleeing Venezuela

#30

Post by digsy »

oxymoran wrote: post #6

Remember when everyone in Venezuela was starving and all the American Leftists were trying to defend Maduro and calling one a fascist on Twitter for criticizing Maduro’s regime?

So sad that this site has gone the way of reddit.

I used to come here for tech discussions and maybe some startup insight.

Now every day there's a post that devolves into qanon, trumpists, leftists bickering.

I guess every site goes to the dogs eventually.

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