Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers • Hacker News Board

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#541

Post by TheAdamAndChe » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 7:13 PM UTC

standardUser wrote: post #483

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The liberal viewpoint is vastly different from the conservative viewpoint, but only if we find a way to communicate and find common ground will we ever hope to move forward together as a nation. Seeing your political opponent as irredeemable is the first step towards sectarianism, which can easily lead to war. I lean to the right, and yet regularly talk to and see the humanity in liberals on a pretty regular basis. W…

If a major political party prioritizes limiting the rights and freedoms of entire groups, how can we expect to find common ground with them? If you are asking people who are directly impacted by these laws to find the humanity in their oppressors, you are asking for the impossible.

The fundamental purpose of law is to place limitations on the allowed behavior of other people. The lines between what behavior is right and wrong varies from people to people and group to group, hence why we have democracy to try to form a consensus.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#542

Post by hanselot » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 7:14 PM UTC

AlexCoventry wrote: post #498

rayiner wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone watch TV anymore? I read Fox News online, which is fine, but I don’t think I’ve ever tuned into shows. My parents have CNN on a loop, and even my dad (a die-hard Carter fan) calls it “DNC talking points.”

I think a lot of voters are older, and still inclined to get their news from TV. https://www.politico.com/blogs/on-media/2017/01/study-fox-ne...

Some so old they may no longer be alive even? "Election fraud is incredibly rare" - this phrase will be etched in the history books, similarly to "it's just a flu" The left will never live this down.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#543

Post by myko » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 7:14 PM UTC

myfavoritedog wrote: post #525

myko wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is just projection from the Left that is working so hard to cancel anyone who steps politically out of line. To be clear, the leader of the conservative party of the US recently attempted a coup.

Nonsense. There are tons of video compilations showing Democrat leaders using the exact same turns of phrase that Trump did, talking about "fighting" for their political beliefs. Further, the Democrats were urging violence throughout Trump's presidency, but the default US media never claimed that they were "attempting a coup". Democrats were attacking federal buildings with fireworks, arson, shooting high-powered las…

He literally psyched a crowd up into a fervor after months of lying and then they marched on the Capitol. His own people were sickened by his giddiness during the event. He was telling his VP to install him as POTUS and tweeted as much. The same guy has been telling folks he plans to be reinstated in August.

You can lie to yourself about it but you're not going to get far lying to others.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#544

Post by whatshisface » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 7:15 PM UTC

JKCalhoun wrote: post #540

lamontcg wrote: post #495

I don't understand this fetishism with centrism and all opinions being treated equally, and that having made up your mind on an issue is necessarily wrong. When it comes to an issue like, say, climate change, I spent years reading the blogosphere, reading blogs like WUWT and whatever Judith Curry would come up with, and then the rebuttals, sometimes waiting years for the science to come out. For any issue around clim…

Yes. I'm reminded of the woman who had survived the Holocaust and was asked to be interviewed — where they would also bring on a Holocaust denier ... you know, for balance. Thankfully, she declined. But the point is of course: here we are.

Context aside, that sounds like it would have been a powerful film. A denier face to face with an eyewitness, presumably with the eyewitness prepared with all of the innumerable pieces of indisputable evidence. Talk about losing, that's losing.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#545

Post by parrellel » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 7:15 PM UTC

myko wrote: post #440

myfavoritedog wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

fascist turn of the Republican party This is just projection from the Left that is working so hard to cancel anyone who steps politically out of line. They think that calling a group "Antifa" makes it anti-fascist, despite their tactics of violently terrorizing anyone with whom they politically disagree - even to the extent of their attacking journalists who simply document their activities. But somehow Republicans a…

> This is just projection from the Left that is working so hard to cancel anyone who steps politically out of line. To be clear, the leader of the conservative party of the US recently attempted a coup.

We're all supposed to forget that happened, dontchaknow. -_-

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#546

Post by arrozconcosas » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 7:15 PM UTC

Almost all media outlets are shifting towards more and more opinion content, which drives clicks and revenue for them. Even the New York Times has dramatically shifted to opinion content and even dramatically increased the share and prominence of opinion on their front page.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#547

Post by majormajor » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 7:16 PM UTC

mariodiana wrote: post #446

Moodles wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, sure, but why are we talking about Fox specifically? CNN, MSNBC, etc. are just as bad. I find this ironic since this thread is about how bias isn't necessarily about outright falsehoods, but story selection and what is not said :)

Jonathan Haidt (who is mentioned in the article) did a study years ago. He separated a group of people into conservatives and liberals and then gave them a questionnaire on politics. Then he got a second group, separated them, and gave them the same questionnaire. Only he asked the second group of liberals and conservatives to answer the questionnaire the way they imagined the other side would. What he found was that…

I would be curious to see what that looks like today when elected Republicans are increasingly spouting what you'd call a "demonized" conservative viewpoint if it wasn't coming out of their mouths directly.

"Those are just the opinions of a small fringe" was much more believable in a pre-Trump world - but now, even more than post-Tea Party, the fringe is pushing the agenda.

And even pre-Trump, you can read that study as an indictment of the conservative media and it's evolution to sensationalism since the 1980s.

To use an example from the linked article: "For instance,when conservatives express binding-foundation moral concerns about gay marriage—e.g., that it subverts traditional gender roles and family structures—liberals may have difficulty perceiving any moral value in such traditional arrangements and therefore conclude that conservatives are motivated by simple homophobia, untempered by concerns about fairness, equality, and rights." - the vocal conservatives were not expressing a very nuanced view, it was the violent fringe that was making the most noise and claiming the most airtime even in conservative outlets.

If you want liberals to understand your complex conservative reasoning, you gotta get the very-un-complex trolls off the air!

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#548

Post by JKCalhoun » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 7:16 PM UTC

systemvoltage wrote: post #523

lamontcg wrote: post #495

I don't understand this fetishism with centrism and all opinions being treated equally, and that having made up your mind on an issue is necessarily wrong. When it comes to an issue like, say, climate change, I spent years reading the blogosphere, reading blogs like WUWT and whatever Judith Curry would come up with, and then the rebuttals, sometimes waiting years for the science to come out. For any issue around clim…

I disagree. Climate change is a terrible example to prove your point. It's an easy one and weakens your argument about balance. Climate change has scientific consensus and has gotten better over time. Most political issues left/right are concerned about issues that are far more nuanced and there isn't enough data to back it up, or even if there is data, there are gaping holes in methodology and eventually boils down…

You think that climate change is a settled issue across the political spectrum?

I have seen the contrary.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#549

Post by stevenicr » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 7:17 PM UTC

Server6 wrote: post #79

nkingsy wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American media is a global industry and is serving a customer base of much more than the US population.

True, but they're making most of their money from western whiter countries. Which is reflected in their actors/stars. However this is already changing and will get better as the global market continues to expand.

not sure this is correct. We may need to get actual numbers or divide up 'film / media' into different segments..

I recall seeing news about big movies, eg transformers and others where in order to satisfy the global market, ie China, decisions needed to be made.. and given that many of those markets appear to be more racist/anti-muslim, (obv not 100, but majority I believe)

and your comment seems to be suggesting [hope] that things above "will get better as the global market continues to expand." -

I'm not chiming in to say this or that is a good or bad thing, just trying to clarify that some things may make one think catering to broader global markets may not make "western whiter countries" more anti-racist or whatever is being suggested as 'changing and will get better' - if that is the perspective being considered for 'get better'.

There are studies showing "diversity" on movie posters hurt sales abroad - and of course there has been local pushback for whitewashing things for increased sales -

Unless we are talking about gov funded wokeness spreading where making money is not a goal. But I did not get that impression from the thread here.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#550

Post by JAlexoid » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 7:18 PM UTC

sudosysgen wrote: post #444

JAlexoid wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're using conservativism vey much in American GOP understanding of the term, which has stopped being conservative a while ago. Conservativism is a relative position, but you can't be a conservative liberal. Economist literally had a massive article what is conservativism. And - SPOILER - UK Torries used to be conservative, while GOP has been reactionary/populist for a while now.

I am not. I don't think the GOP definition of conservatism admits conservative socialism. You definitely can be a conservative liberal. The American society by and large is founded on liberal principles. All you have to do to be a conservative liberal is to stick to 18th-19th century liberalism, in being a so-called "classical liberal". I agree that the GOP is reactionary more than conservative.

Classical liberalism - complete laissez faire market, no government interference and individual wealth creation. Today's libertarians are closest to classical liberals.

The term classical liberal exists specifically, because conservative liberal creates a massive ambiguity.

And getting back to The Economist - they aren't conservative at all. It's a modern liberal magazine, that routinely promotes wealth redistribution and support for the poor.