Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers • Hacker News Board

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#231

Post by mike00632 » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 5:37 PM UTC

Noos wrote: post #169

mike00632 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ballots are secret in the Unites States. Therefore this person must have vocally supported Trump. Therefore you are being misleading about what incited his former fans.

yeah, well he gave money to him rather. My mistake. About the same difference imo, contributions are limited to the point that at best you can say its a vote +1.

My point remains. You are deliberately minimizing his support for Trump, his support for other anti-gay politicians and his political statements to make it seem like people were against him over his quiet political preferences. If you try to influence politics and use your platform/money to do so then you absolutely should expect some sort of response, if only from your partisan opposition.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#232

Post by rytcio » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 5:38 PM UTC

vsskanth wrote: post #8

I tried this experiment: read nytimes, wapo, fox, national review and politico. I wanted to get different perspectives. However, I encountered a bunch of issues: They dont talk about or even cover the same things, which makes it hard to compare liberal vs conservative perspectives. This is the most common form of bias I've come across. In the rare case they do cover the same thing, many articles either simply do not…

I started to pay really close attention to political news back in 2015/2016. There was this crazy phenomenon during the Trump administration where both sides felt like the other side was living in an alternate reality.

The truth is that news sources for each side presented completely different stories. While one side got a certain story, the other side was completely silent. So you had two groups of people who had two different sets of unrelated stories, and very rarely did they overlap. The media did an amazing job of putting each group into their own silo, making it impossible to discuss anything between groups or for any positive Trump news to ever be known to a large percentage of the population.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#233

Post by rootusrootus » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 5:38 PM UTC

throwaway894345 wrote: post #188

sandyarmstrong wrote: post #124

> I would be shocked if 60+% of American film characters are identifiably Christian How often do you see Christmas used as a plot device? Or a church used as a setting? Or a priest character? I would be shocked if context didn't imply that > 95% of American film characters are Christian.

Christmas and church settings don't indicate Christianity. Most secular Americans celebrate Christmas or attend weddings and funerals in Christian churches or officiated by Christian clergy. Indeed, for a very long time it was the norm to have one's own funeral or wedding at a church, officiated by Christian clergy, even if one was atheist or agnostic and even today it's quite common.

Guilty as charged. I'm an atheist (well, I'm ignostic, which is similar but I consider the distinction important), my wife is agnostic, but we had our wedding in a church officiated by a Christian minister.

Why? Because my wife liked the venue, we both wanted a traditional ceremony, and we thought it would be a better fit with our families, many of whom are devout Christians.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#234

Post by vincent-toups » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 5:38 PM UTC

I'm all for people getting out of their bubbles, but the idea that the truth is "somewhere in the middle" or is even discernible by a process of digestion applied to the two "sides" of the American political spectrum is pretty dumb.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#235

Post by mc32 » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 5:39 PM UTC

throwaway894345 wrote: post #188

sandyarmstrong wrote: post #124

> I would be shocked if 60+% of American film characters are identifiably Christian How often do you see Christmas used as a plot device? Or a church used as a setting? Or a priest character? I would be shocked if context didn't imply that > 95% of American film characters are Christian.

Christmas and church settings don't indicate Christianity. Most secular Americans celebrate Christmas or attend weddings and funerals in Christian churches or officiated by Christian clergy. Indeed, for a very long time it was the norm to have one's own funeral or wedding at a church, officiated by Christian clergy, even if one was atheist or agnostic and even today it's quite common.

To emphasize this, some Japanese have “church weddings”... sometimes with a fake minister... except they are not, in the great majority of cases, Christian, or even religious at all. The just like a ceremony. It’s kind of exotic, I guess.

Fortunately the Japanese don’t feel like they are othering, or appropriating or anything like that. They just want to enjoy something, something different.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#236

Post by throwaway894345 » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 5:39 PM UTC

whimsicalism wrote: post #155

TinkersW wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Christmas isn't Christian

Actually, I would flip this and say that going to church weekly is not a necessary condition for being within Christian sphere of influence. Xmas is most certainly Christian.

Christian Christmas is Christian, but it is very different from Secular Christmas, which is practiced by Americans of all faiths as well as atheists and agnostics.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#237

Post by dandersh » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 5:39 PM UTC

vsskanth wrote: post #8

I tried this experiment: read nytimes, wapo, fox, national review and politico. I wanted to get different perspectives. However, I encountered a bunch of issues: They dont talk about or even cover the same things, which makes it hard to compare liberal vs conservative perspectives. This is the most common form of bias I've come across. In the rare case they do cover the same thing, many articles either simply do not…

"They dont talk about or even cover the same things, which makes it hard to compare liberal vs conservative perspectives. This is the most common form of bias I've come across."

I've noticed this as well. Going from WaPo to Breitbart (or vice versa) is like going to an alternate world. When they are talking about the same thing often they are doing so in a belittling manner (https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2016/11/13/safety-pin-ant...). I feel like the tone taken by MSM outlets like WaPo and the NYT has become harsher and more condescending, but it could just be me paying closer attention to it.

Bias by exclusion doesn't get talked about as much as it should. One way you can tell when a media establishment doesn't like something is that they do what they can to ignore it. During the Dem primaries it had become a meme in some left wing communities the length the MSM was going to ignore Bernie and his popularity. Another popular example is how Noam Chomsky is largely shunned by the MSM.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#238

Post by rootusrootus » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 5:40 PM UTC

whimsicalism wrote: post #203

cm2012 wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably 70% of the student body was hindu, muslim, or jewish. But they still participated as an american cultural thing, they just didn't do anything church related with it.

Interesting. Where exactly was this? I grew up in a major Jewish population center in the United States, most jews did not celebrate christmas outside of the ceremonial going out for chinese food. Muslim students also did not celebrate xmas. This is an urban center on the east coast.

> ceremonial going out for chinese food

Wait, what, this is a thing? I'd never heard of that. Like, only the Jews would do it? Or more generally it's common for everyone to go out for Chinese food on Christmas? That has to be regional, if it's true. Kinda funny either way.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#239

Post by vincent-toups » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 5:40 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #111

vsskanth wrote: post #8

I tried this experiment: read nytimes, wapo, fox, national review and politico. I wanted to get different perspectives. However, I encountered a bunch of issues: They dont talk about or even cover the same things, which makes it hard to compare liberal vs conservative perspectives. This is the most common form of bias I've come across. In the rare case they do cover the same thing, many articles either simply do not…

I highly recommend the Economist . Their articles mostly follow a dialectical format -- thesis, antithesis, synthesis, with about a third of the article spent on each one. I don't know of any other publication whose house style is so rigorous in this. It's also highly editorialized, but very open and transparent about the positions it takes -- any bias they have is in the open, but is in the final synthesis after the…

The Economist certainly doesn't break down easily on the American political spectrum, but in the more coherent language of higher level policy, the Economist is almost 100% liberal.

I agree its a well put together publication, but a socialist (for instance) would argue it is deeply ideological.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#240

Post by TheAdamAndChe » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 5:40 PM UTC

standardUser wrote: post #116

hn8788 wrote: post #31

An underrated way to get out of your echo chamber is to actually talk to people in person. I lean fairly conservative, while my wife and her friends are very liberal. Whenever we happen to talk about political topics, most of the time we end up understanding where each other are coming from, even if we still don't agree.

Perhaps your political viewpoints are fairly mild compared to mainstream conservative discourse? It's difficult to have civil discourse with someone who says your identify (or the identify of those you love) should be outlawed or otherwise severely restricted by the state. That's been a core tenet of conservative politics and policy for several years now and I do not have the intellectual tools nor the emotional stre…

The liberal viewpoint is vastly different from the conservative viewpoint, but only if we find a way to communicate and find common ground will we ever hope to move forward together as a nation. Seeing your political opponent as irredeemable is the first step towards sectarianism, which can easily lead to war.

I lean to the right, and yet regularly talk to and see the humanity in liberals on a pretty regular basis. We are all people, even if we see things differently.