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I Miss the Old Internet (2019)

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Re: I Miss the Old Internet (2019)

#321
post #206

I think it's easy to forget we're not the same people we were 20-25 years ago. I see all sorts of lamentations about various things in the world changing and becoming less magical. But as far as I'm aware, I could still go and argue about bands in chatrooms. I could talk to other writers and dream about my future best-selling novels. I could go read random opinions about any subject and get into an exhilarating flame…

To me the main change that internet got is this: the old internet was like a parallel universe, you picked up a random username, and no matter who you were in real life, you could socialize and share interest with other people without any prejudice.

This is especially important for introverts like me, that if they have to put their real name on something, for example a comment on Facebook, they think about it 100 times, while being anonymous they are more inclined to share things with strangers. You don't have to worry about what people thinks about you, or about prejudice that people have based on your age, your social life, your job, because nobody knows who you really are. The only thing that matters is your contribute to the discussion. I still remember discussions that I made with people that I only recognize by a username, and they were so interesting, much more interesting than everything you can find on Facebook.

In the old days you were told to never share your real name on the internet, to always pick up usernames, nowadays companies forces you to register with your real identity, Facebook can even ask you to provide a photo of your ID, and YouTube won't let you watch content for over 18 if you don't identity yourself. There are even countries that would like to force internet companies to ask for the identity of the people!

In the old days internet was a place where an introvert that didn't know how to relate with other people in real life could have escaped to share it's interests with other people freely and without any anxiety. Nowadays it's no longer like this, unfortunately. Forums are desert, nobody still uses IRC, and everything is a Facebook group or something like that on a social media platform where I don't want to sign up. Even websites in the old days had comment sections, nowadays you want to comment? Do it on Facebook. There are only a few exception of course (one of this is this website, that I like a lot for exactly this reason).

The only website that still maintains the old web philosophy, and the only social media that I use, is Reddit, that still doesn't require you to register with your real identity. But I fear that it will not last for long...

Also in the old internet there was a spirit of collaboration and community that I never saw in the modern web. You were a newbie in something, for example using Linux? Sign up to a forum, or ask on IRC, and people would have helped you, helped solving the problem, for free, only for the gratification on doing so. And most of the time even the person helping you to solve the problem learned something new in the process! It was fun for everyone. Nowadays even on the few forum that remained, go and ask a newbie question, and they will tell you "just search on Google", make fun of your ignorance, or something like that.

Re: I Miss the Old Internet (2019)

#322
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens next?

If we ever get around to having a Basic Income, it may help this somewhat. Creators may feel less pushed to monetize the things they make.

This. Capitalism is pretty good at making a lot of what can be monetized at industrial scales, but without some form of complementing security, it also places distorting incentives to search every activity for ROI possibilities in one form or another.

Re: I Miss the Old Internet (2019)

#323
Many people here mentioned it's notalgia. I dont think its the case. The internet was actually very different. It was WAAAAY more social than today. It revolved alot more around small communities. Even in gaming, we had dedicated servers in pretty much any game. Now, everything is automatic and you almost never meet the same people twice. It's just sad.

We have reddit, but it's just a pool of people caring a tiny bit about everything instead of caring alot about 1 thing.

The entire internet is over run by ads. It's all about bussinesses now, while back then, it was about communities and information.

Im happy with the current internet, it's great. But we have lost alot of amazing things from the past. The old internet had things the new internet could only dream of.

That's life.

Re: I Miss the Old Internet (2019)

#324
For me, it's Reddit which has killed the internet. It (along with Facebook Groups) has sucked the oxygen out of internet communities. It favours recency, but only at the thread level, so new comments in old threads will never be seen but new threads with the same conversation will always pop up.

This causes one of two effects: old timers leave communities because it's just the same repetitive threads over and over, and communities become dominated by newbies; or, worse, old timers develop lexicons of inside jokes and memes, and the community becomes impenetrable to newcomers who might otherwise have a lot to offer.

Re: I Miss the Old Internet (2019)

#325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, HN suffers in the comparison to Slashdot, because HN is an example of the arguably overmoderated internet of today. Slashdot had a vibrant culture of troll posting. It wasn’t just dumb one-line slurs or whatever, which no one would want to see. Rather, it was often longform text crafted to a downright literary quality, to the point where many Slashdot regulars would choose to browse their discussion threads a…

On the contrary, I feel that "troll culture" is (along with commercialization) one of the things that has ruined the net. It's basically a form of bullying, and over the years, as bullies do, they've steadily escalated in their trolling. Harmless pranks from the 4chan crowd morphed into harassment campaigns like Gamergate and Pizzagate, then to 1/6 [edit: the storming of the US Capitol]. Anyone disingenuously complai…

> Anyone disingenuously complaining that their "freedom of speech" is under attack

"Freedom of speech" is a philosophical concept, not a legal principle. You seem to have it confused with the US-specific "First Amendment", which is the one that only applies to the government.

I personally see a big problem with social media banning trans-people (Facebook), or declaring that the whole LGBT crowd is inappropriate (Livejournal, Tumblr). I think it's a problem when scientists sharing Covid-19 information get banned for being ahead of the official CDC/FDA guidance (Twitter)

Maybe the solution isn't legal, but I still think it's bad that we have a massive media apparatus that can wipe out any voices it disagrees with, and which is fairly eager to use that against people like me.

Re: I Miss the Old Internet (2019)

#326

This sentiment of missing an older internet is one reason like like Hacker News. Slash dot was great in the day. Digg was so great in the day. Then the early days of Reddit were great. I’ve been her for over ten years and Hacker News is still good. So thank you to the team that runs Hacker News and everyone who comments for making it a good place to come to.

I agree. I think HN in the perfect combination of the old internet, with the text-only posts, and the web 2.0 way of doing likes and threaded conversations. And, of course, the moderation keeping it all in check. I'm grateful that I can come here every day.

HN is not anything like the old internet forums or BBSes.

Content would get moderated but you could still read messages. Even the ones that went against the dogma.

Not at HN, anti-dogma posts get downvoted into oblivion or flagged if they are bad enough. I recently posted a counter-opinion on burnout and was downvoted pretty badly. I didn't flame, and tried to articulate my point well.

HN is composed of the exact microcosm of people who have ruined the internet. It's just an echo chamber where counter-points are nuked. No different than facebook, or anything else. At least /. made you think about using your modpoints to downvote. Now it's free - and for many very pathetic people downvoting is a source of dopamine. It's far easier to drive-by-downvote without having to even articulate a reply as to why. Comparing this to the old BBSes and forums, you at least got a moderator note (or a VERY disparaging note from a user) in your PMs about why you're being moderated. It is wildly frustrating to type something well thought out and be downvoted into oblivion because your stance isn't en-vogue.

Re: I Miss the Old Internet (2019)

#327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there enough of a market for extremely short YouTube videos so that people could make a living just making “It’s 2 videos stitched together”? Honestly, my heart wants it to be true.

Yeah, TikTok.

Hahaha, I knew this comment was coming. Fun fact: TikTok is experimenting with longer videos. I think they’re up to 3min already.

Re: I Miss the Old Internet (2019)

#328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there enough of a market for extremely short YouTube videos so that people could make a living just making “It’s 2 videos stitched together”? Honestly, my heart wants it to be true.

Short videos get killed by the YouTube algorithm since it’s difficult to show ads.

Right! Exactly!

That’s why I’m curious if it’s possible for creators to make 1-2 sentence videos that are profitable enough for the platform those videos are on that they can pay the creators well.

Re: I Miss the Old Internet (2019)

#329
post #64

Sadly, it’s the people. The old internet had a filtering function where, because it was harder to use, people had to have some interest or skill to use it. So as a result, I think the proportion of people “online” had similar interest so more content was relevant and made by similar people. Now everyone is online with more diverse interests and capabilities.

"diverse capabilities" is quite the euphemism.
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