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Hilton's 1967 plan for a space hotel

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Re: Hilton's 1967 plan for a space hotel

#61
post #4
post #2

I don't see the bizarre part. Wikipedia says Barron was born in 1927 when we were still figuring out the basics of aviation, and just a few decades later he was making these plans in the midst of the space race. Considering the rate of progress he had witnessed in his time, it's not very surprising that he expected us to aggressively colonize space in his lifetime. Maybe I have overly romanticized notions of what cou…

Until we figure out a way to make lots of money from deep space missions, progress will be slow. The space race was, imo, mostly a race to optimize nuclear warhead delivery systems.

We probably would need to somehow uncover massive deposits of rare "earth" elements or similar to convince people to push for reaching to space seriously again.

Re: Hilton's 1967 plan for a space hotel

#62

The only bizarre thing is that after having people on the moon fifty years ago, nobody bothered to go back. The natural progression would have been to keep on launching more and bigger rockets and put more stuff up there. Eventually going to Mars (the moon rockets were actually over-engineered on purpose to eventually allow that). However, that never happened and NASA settled for some cheaper successes in low orbit.…

> The only bizarre thing is that after having people on the moon fifty years ago, nobody bothered to go back. The natural progression

Natural progression? :)

Contemporaneous with the dream of "we will settle space", was one of "we will settle the continental shelves". The progression? Skylab-like habitats, abandoned, nothing ISS-like, and now only temporary work camps. A tourism of many brief shallow visits, and a few shallow subs and hotels. Military subs. No large commercial subs, a few semi-submersibles. Limited shallow seabed mining. Very limited floating towns. Drift nets and bottom trawling. No bases and cities under the sea. No commercial divers looking around at the seafloor and thinking, "I want to raise my family here someday". Lessons? Find some space resource extraction, for which robots are inadequate, and with better economics than seabed mining. Militarize space. Encourage recreational high-altitude ballooning, parachuting, and suborbital.

"We will settle the Antarctic"? Science bases grew a bit, got prettier. Little commerce, no industry, no extraction, no settlement. Some tourism, visiting ships, and tear-down-each-season hotels. Emphasis on preservation. So a planetary protection "Mars international-park planet: take only photographs, leave only footprints"?

"We will colonize the air"? Societal emphasis on safety cripples innovation? Clear-eyed investors deny funding? (Early railroads and canals often operated profitably... after a bankruptcy or three disposed of the cost of making them.) No floating cities. Few aerostats. Enormous ratio of paper dreams to metal. Lessons... ?

"We will settle the deserts"? Cairo's cities in the sand? Diversely poor, industrial, and gated. China's ghost cities? So focus on incentivizing developers, and then move something there to attract people?

So many natural progressions to choose from. :)

Re: Hilton's 1967 plan for a space hotel

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Low Earth Orbit training for athletes in 2G will be a thing once it's cheap enough. They'll come back to earth absurdly strong.

Wonder if the added strain (eg on heart?) would reduce their likely life expectancy though?

This doesn’t seem to be stopping e.g. American football. Many people would gladly trade 20 years from 60-80 for a chance to live a decent life 20-40.

Re: Hilton's 1967 plan for a space hotel

#64
post #52
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to talk about the environmental impact!

Not necessarily that high with methane fuel. The exhaust is CO2 and water, and you can make it from water, CO2 in the air, and clean energy.

And potentially near-zero emissions with hydrogen/liquid oxygen rockets. Of course, methane rockets probably ends up having lower emissions in practice due to hydrogen typically being produced in methods that emit CO2.

Ultimately, even if we massively increased the rate of rockets being launched, the greenhouse gas impact would be pretty minimal compared to cars, electricity, and cement production.

Re: Hilton's 1967 plan for a space hotel

#65

The only bizarre thing is that after having people on the moon fifty years ago, nobody bothered to go back. The natural progression would have been to keep on launching more and bigger rockets and put more stuff up there. Eventually going to Mars (the moon rockets were actually over-engineered on purpose to eventually allow that). However, that never happened and NASA settled for some cheaper successes in low orbit.…

> The only bizarre thing is that after having people on the moon fifty years ago, nobody bothered to go back. The natural progression Natural progression? :) Contemporaneous with the dream of "we will settle space", was one of "we will settle the continental shelves". The progression? Skylab-like habitats, abandoned, nothing ISS-like, and now only temporary work camps. A tourism of many brief shallow visits, and a fe…

Settlement of Antarctica has been basically prohibited by international treaty since 1957.

Plenty of desert cities in the US: Las Vegas, Palm Springs, Scottsdale, etc. For more extreme deserts, lots of middle eastern cities.

Re: Hilton's 1967 plan for a space hotel

#66
post #2

I don't see the bizarre part. Wikipedia says Barron was born in 1927 when we were still figuring out the basics of aviation, and just a few decades later he was making these plans in the midst of the space race. Considering the rate of progress he had witnessed in his time, it's not very surprising that he expected us to aggressively colonize space in his lifetime. Maybe I have overly romanticized notions of what cou…

Some prominent people involved feel Apollo was the mistake if the goal is to colonize space and other worlds asap

https://twitter.com/ZachWeiner/status/1402314414515273728?s=...

Re: Hilton's 1967 plan for a space hotel

#67
post #66
post #2

I don't see the bizarre part. Wikipedia says Barron was born in 1927 when we were still figuring out the basics of aviation, and just a few decades later he was making these plans in the midst of the space race. Considering the rate of progress he had witnessed in his time, it's not very surprising that he expected us to aggressively colonize space in his lifetime. Maybe I have overly romanticized notions of what cou…

Some prominent people involved feel Apollo was the mistake if the goal is to colonize space and other worlds asap https://twitter.com/ZachWeiner/status/1402314414515273728?s=...

The original idea of the first step in outer space exploration by Korolev & co was a mission to circumnavigate Venus (before the surface conditions were known) or Mars. The N family or rockets, the concept of which had been studied before R-7 ever flew, was envisioned as a tool to assemble the large modular interplanetary spaceship in LEO.

Moon wasn't terribly popular among Soviet space engineers because orbital construction was seen as necessary tech, and a single launch mission would have accomplished nothing towards it. But the party decided to participate in the moon race so the largest rocket in the family, N-1, which was never optimized for TLI missions, has been selected and repurposed for this task (and never flew since the concept itself turned out to be flawed in several regards unlike R-7).

Hard to say whether this vision was right - too many unknowns, and they would probably have finished in early 80s at best - but the outcome of that idea was the modular space station tech.

Re: Hilton's 1967 plan for a space hotel

#68
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some prominent people involved feel Apollo was the mistake if the goal is to colonize space and other worlds asap https://twitter.com/ZachWeiner/status/1402314414515273728?s=...

The original idea of the first step in outer space exploration by Korolev & co was a mission to circumnavigate Venus (before the surface conditions were known) or Mars. The N family or rockets, the concept of which had been studied before R-7 ever flew, was envisioned as a tool to assemble the large modular interplanetary spaceship in LEO. Moon wasn't terribly popular among Soviet space engineers because orbital cons…

I guess it's really impossible to know for sure but imagining an alternative history of the space race is always fun. I really liked how For All Mankind did it.

Re: Hilton's 1967 plan for a space hotel

#69
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Low Earth Orbit training for athletes in 2G will be a thing once it's cheap enough. They'll come back to earth absurdly strong.

Wouldn't it be straightforward to produce 2G on earth in a rotating ring (combining forces similar to superelevation in rail tracks)?

Yeah there are carnival rides that basically do this. If scaled up to maybe 100 meter diameter horizontal ring the coriolis forces shouldn't be too bothersome. The floor would be banked to seem level to the people inside. There would still be some weird second order effects but it seems like it could be livable for days at a time. The room should be as thin as possible if the floor is to be flat in one direction to minimize weirdness. Having the outside of the wheel moving at around highway speed with >45 degree bank angle should give about 1.5 g.

Someone must have built a centrifuge barracks or something during the cold war. Have never heard of such a thing, though.

Re: Hilton's 1967 plan for a space hotel

#70
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're using the internet wrong. I'd say if you're watching star trek or some other sci-fi show from earlier than the 90s, we may not have achieved FTL or teleportation, but the whole "magic device that contains all knowledge and can communicate with anyone at any time" thing we actually did pretty well on.

I remember reading Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy when I was young and thinking how amazing it’d be to have a such an all knowing device that could look up anything, but didn’t think it was possible, never imagined everyone would have one in their pocket someday.

> that could look up anything

As long as you can find a sci-hub mirror that hasn’t been taken down.

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