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As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

theatlantic.com

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Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

#81

Post by yongjik »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #9

>Immigrants to America tend to become American; emigrants to other countries from America tend to stay American. Is that true, or just the authors' speculation? Although it is easily explained. Everyone wants to be American because the USA, of all the countries in the world offers the greatest opportunities to the greatest number of people. They are the top of the food chain, in less nationalistic terms. (i'm not Ame…

While the sentiment may be true for Americans living in America, if an American decides to emigrate to a different country then they obviously think living in this new country is better for them - unless they move back later, I don't think emigrating Americans remain "American" for long, certainly not after a generation or two.

Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

#82

Post by varjag »

zxzax wrote: post #60
remarkEon wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s interesting seeing this point, which has been around the internet for at least a decade now, start to get printed in what are otherwise mainstream publications these days. I don’t know that I buy it, but I certainly understand and see the merit of the argument.

I don't really buy it, it seems to suggest that scientific discoveries are not questioned and changed constantly, when they absolutely are. It's not accurate to always refer to them as "beliefs."

I think it expresses doubt in ability of a layperson to make a rational judgement on merits of a particular scientific research or process rather than on science itself.

Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

#83

Post by jandrewrogers »

nielsbot wrote: post #55
akarma wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America is certainly the country with the most opportunity for the most people. A shift that has occurred from the 1950s to present is that there is less of a guarantee of an upper-middle-class lifestyle through a moderate [1] amount of effort. That easier opportunity, however, was unique to the era. Prior to 1930, immigrants knew that America was a place for exceptionally hard work and tons of opportunity and freedo…

Wasn't taxation very high during the period describe, and declining gradually since then? I also thought home ownership was one of the main generators of wealth for families, and wasn't that government assisted in some way? (Not a historian)

No, taxation was not very high. Some tax rates were very high but they had an extensive range of deductions that don't exist today. The effective tax rates, what people actually paid as a percentage of gross income, were similar to today.

They lowered tax rates simultaneous with eliminating deductions, making the changes over time roughly neutral in terms of taxes paid.

Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

#84

Post by mrfusion »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #19
vmception wrote: post #6

I think this correlation is related to causation. I think there are registers in people's minds that are simply occupied. Addicts occupy their predisposition to addiction with a single or ever changing way of neglecting their responsibilities and relationships and health, based on simple earliest exposure. Susceptible people occupy their predisposition to susceptibility with religion or fervent ideology, the "choice"…

What a condescending and misanthropic view of people. So we're just paramecia with "registers" waiting for occupation. As with anything, I think the real answer is much more nuanced. 1) This article is making the case that this behavior is universal, when there is no evidence of that. As always has been, there are subsects of any ideology that are ravenous in their dogma. They are always the loudest and get the most…

I don’t think anyone judges you because of who the president is.

Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

#85

Post by andrewmcwatters »

pmoriarty wrote: post #76

We may be on the cusp of a great religious revival, due to the increased acceptance and eventual mainstreaming of psychedelics. People often interpret their psychedelic experiences in religious terms, and psychedelic use has often created new religions and helped to engender an authentic reconnection to existing religions. Mainstream religions rarely offer much more than platitudes or a place to socialize for the maj…

Walk into a mainstream religious setting. None of them are there because they got high. If that were the case, the 70s would have looked a lot different.

Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

#86

Post by 13415 »

bwb wrote: post #15
FridayoLeary wrote: post #9

>Immigrants to America tend to become American; emigrants to other countries from America tend to stay American. Is that true, or just the authors' speculation? Although it is easily explained. Everyone wants to be American because the USA, of all the countries in the world offers the greatest opportunities to the greatest number of people. They are the top of the food chain, in less nationalistic terms. (i'm not Ame…

That isn't true if you mean in terms of achieving the classic American dream… Canada, Germany, the Netherlands and others are moving more people out of lower/middle class to middle/upper class as a percentage. I do not know in terms of raw numbers but via % we are behind.

I believe people who move to the US also like the comparably low bureaucracy, as well as opportunities in some sectors. Personally, I've lost my interest in moving to the US (or even visiting it) a long time ago, around the time of Bush Jr. for various reasons, but I'm still convinced that founding a successful company with low starting capital is easier in the US than almost anywhere else. The same is true for acting, music, show business and all the support like film cutting, audio engineering, special effects, etc. Despite the increased competition, your career prospects in these areas will probably be much higher if you move to L.A. or NY than if you stay somewhere else in the world.

Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

#87

Post by rubyn00bie »

Uhhh... this article is really out of touch with the world and I'm pretty sure they totally didn't understand at a minimum half of what they're talking about.

I'd really like to point out something that's just a fact, that was told to me, while I was abroad, by non-US citizens:

The USA is the only country where you can move to and say you're from. I can't ever move to France and call myself French. I can't move to Germany and be German, no more than I can ever move to Japan and call myself Japanese. One can however, move to the United States, and call themselves American.

There is something binding to America, much greater than religion, and it's the idea of freedom. Not even real freedom, just the god damn idea of it.

> As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

ROFLCOPTR. Next you're going to try and sell me a tool to predict stock prices based on the weather (and I did read more after laughing my ass off at the sub heading).

To assume that religion is what held together America is itself fucking stupid. I could accept greed, war mongering, or pretty much anything except the bullshit veil of religion. This was obviously written by someone who has no lens without religion and so applies it everywhere they can. It'd be more accurate to title this article "let's blame the problems of the world on the decline of religion, because I'm to stupid and willfully ignorant to accept the complex dynamics of modern society."

Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

#88

Post by somewhereoutth »

akarma wrote: post #29
bwb wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn't true if you mean in terms of achieving the classic American dream… Canada, Germany, the Netherlands and others are moving more people out of lower/middle class to middle/upper class as a percentage. I do not know in terms of raw numbers but via % we are behind.

America is certainly the country with the most opportunity for the most people. A shift that has occurred from the 1950s to present is that there is less of a guarantee of an upper-middle-class lifestyle through a moderate [1] amount of effort. That easier opportunity, however, was unique to the era. Prior to 1930, immigrants knew that America was a place for exceptionally hard work and tons of opportunity and freedo…

You all work so hard for almost nothing (apart from 'stuff', that is now mostly made in China).

In Europe people have a much more relaxed attitude to work, yet somehow pretty much everyone has a very high quality of life - judged by quality of food, things working properly (e.g. washing machines and public restroom doors!), freedom from fear (e.g. of losing their job, getting ill, or interactions with the 'police'), and time to spend with people important to you.

Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

#89

Post by perfmode »

pmoriarty wrote: post #76

We may be on the cusp of a great religious revival, due to the increased acceptance and eventual mainstreaming of psychedelics. People often interpret their psychedelic experiences in religious terms, and psychedelic use has often created new religions and helped to engender an authentic reconnection to existing religions. Mainstream religions rarely offer much more than platitudes or a place to socialize for the maj…

it’s worth also introducing another word into the vocabulary of the discussion: spirituality
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