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As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

theatlantic.com

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Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

#51

Post by remarkEon »

wyager wrote: post #32
wturner wrote: post #3

I wish we had a world where the discernment between science, axiom and ideology was a real thing ironed into the public muscle memory as much as ideology itself. Idealism.

The “science” most people believe (more accurately called scientism) is an aspect of the state secular religion.

It’s interesting seeing this point, which has been around the internet for at least a decade now, start to get printed in what are otherwise mainstream publications these days. I don’t know that I buy it, but I certainly understand and see the merit of the argument.

Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

#52

Post by kortilla »

someotherblah wrote: post #41

America does have a god. It's called "the product". Just because it's falling short of the vaccum religion used to fill doesn't mean we won't pivot to something else. Enjoy the ride folks.

For a good chunk of the of the country the god is actually anti-capitalist ideals now,

Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

#53

Post by bobthechef »

papito wrote: post #38

Religion is going away and political affiliation resembles more of a cult. You know, very healthy.

Religion isn't going away. Ideology is religion. Very bad religion, but it is religion (or a "cult" to use your language, though that term is overloaded). And no one is without religion. Everyone worships something. The question is: are you worshiping the right thing?

In terms of the "traditional" churches in the US, yes, mainline Protestantism is dying because it is a spent force (it has more or less fully acquiesced to the culture, become a consumer and servant of that culture, which means it no longer has any purpose). Muslims who move her tend to become moderates and likely shed Islam entirely eventually. You do see some growth among Evangelicals, but in any case, globally (Africa, Asia), you do see Catholicism and Islam growing. The West is in this sense a decadent freak.

Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

#54

Post by underwater »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #9

>Immigrants to America tend to become American; emigrants to other countries from America tend to stay American. Is that true, or just the authors' speculation? Although it is easily explained. Everyone wants to be American because the USA, of all the countries in the world offers the greatest opportunities to the greatest number of people. They are the top of the food chain, in less nationalistic terms. (i'm not Ame…

The "truth" you see is the designed outcome of soft diplomacy through the export of US culture via movies, television and the internet.

I know lots of non-US folk who love the values and opportunities they experience in America. But I also know lots of others who don't.

I see my own country adopting more and more aspects from America: individualism over community, the excessive consumerism, the Starbuck-ification of every facet of our lives, that I think are more harmful than beneficial.

Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

#55

Post by nielsbot »

akarma wrote: post #29
bwb wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn't true if you mean in terms of achieving the classic American dream… Canada, Germany, the Netherlands and others are moving more people out of lower/middle class to middle/upper class as a percentage. I do not know in terms of raw numbers but via % we are behind.

America is certainly the country with the most opportunity for the most people. A shift that has occurred from the 1950s to present is that there is less of a guarantee of an upper-middle-class lifestyle through a moderate [1] amount of effort. That easier opportunity, however, was unique to the era. Prior to 1930, immigrants knew that America was a place for exceptionally hard work and tons of opportunity and freedo…

Wasn't taxation very high during the period describe, and declining gradually since then?

I also thought home ownership was one of the main generators of wealth for families, and wasn't that government assisted in some way?

(Not a historian)

Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

#56

Post by f38zf5vdt »

newfriend wrote: post #50
f38zf5vdt wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the 1880s to 2000 this may have been the case, but I don't think it is anymore. Any country with public health insurance that is decent is more attractive than the US. People are not blind, they see Americans dying of diabetes because they can't afford insulin that they attempted to crowdfund. [1] The US has evolved into a modern dystopia under the first-past-the-post system and cloture in the senate. I think th…

> The US has evolved into a modern dystopia > America's democracy may not even be a democracy > Republicans are currently digging themselves in to remove as much democracy Here's the ideological intensity that the article mentioned. This is delusional. The smartest, most driven people still come to the US to start businesses and seek fortune, because it's the best place in the world to do so.

I'm not from the US, so I suppose I don't know. One of my uncles immigrated there and works in a VA hospital. The stories he tells me, of people dying of ailments that are common in the third world, seems to suggest otherwise.

Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

#57

Post by RGamma »

rejectedandsad wrote: post #30
bwb wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn't true if you mean in terms of achieving the classic American dream… Canada, Germany, the Netherlands and others are moving more people out of lower/middle class to middle/upper class as a percentage. I do not know in terms of raw numbers but via % we are behind.

Yet people in most of Western Europe (discounting Switzerland and Luxembourg and maybe Norway) are objectively poorer than even the poorest American states.

Why is quality of life measured on consumption crap so heavily? Personally idgaf about useless doodads that waste resources and space in my home (or mind).

Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

#59

Post by icelancer »

f38zf5vdt wrote: post #43
FridayoLeary wrote: post #9

>Immigrants to America tend to become American; emigrants to other countries from America tend to stay American. Is that true, or just the authors' speculation? Although it is easily explained. Everyone wants to be American because the USA, of all the countries in the world offers the greatest opportunities to the greatest number of people. They are the top of the food chain, in less nationalistic terms. (i'm not Ame…

From the 1880s to 2000 this may have been the case, but I don't think it is anymore. Any country with public health insurance that is decent is more attractive than the US. People are not blind, they see Americans dying of diabetes because they can't afford insulin that they attempted to crowdfund. [1] The US has evolved into a modern dystopia under the first-past-the-post system and cloture in the senate. I think th…

>> Any country with public health insurance that is decent is more attractive than the US.

Depending on what you want to do with your life, this is mostly true. But immigration laws to countries with these kinds of welfare structures tend to be much tighter than ones without for reasons that are obvious.

Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

#60

Post by zxzax »

remarkEon wrote: post #51
wyager wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The “science” most people believe (more accurately called scientism) is an aspect of the state secular religion.

It’s interesting seeing this point, which has been around the internet for at least a decade now, start to get printed in what are otherwise mainstream publications these days. I don’t know that I buy it, but I certainly understand and see the merit of the argument.

I don't really buy it, it seems to suggest that scientific discoveries are not questioned and changed constantly, when they absolutely are. It's not accurate to always refer to them as "beliefs."
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