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As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

theatlantic.com

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Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

#71
I want to point out that this is incorrect:

> It’s rare to hear someone accused of being un-Swedish or un-British—but un-American is a common slur, slung by both left and right against the other. Being called un-American is like being called “un-Christian” or “un-Islamic,” a charge akin to heresy.

In fact to be unswedish is not just a common idiom it’s a positive one. It’s when you don’t show the typical negative Swedishness. You aren’t “accused” of it, you are congratulated.

“-I went to say hello to all the neighbors in my building. -What a nice and unswedish thing to do!”

Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

#72
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn't true if you mean in terms of achieving the classic American dream… Canada, Germany, the Netherlands and others are moving more people out of lower/middle class to middle/upper class as a percentage. I do not know in terms of raw numbers but via % we are behind.

Yet people in most of Western Europe (discounting Switzerland and Luxembourg and maybe Norway) are objectively poorer than even the poorest American states.

There are perhaps other metrics to go for, other than 'just' monetary:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report#2020_re...

Some other countries may have chosen to trade some personal income/wealth for other things.

Further, while there may be more money in general in the US, using averages skews things a bit due to inequality; social mobility is lower in the US than many other countries:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Gatsby_curve

If you're not already at/near the top in the US, good luck getting there.

Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

#73

>Immigrants to America tend to become American; emigrants to other countries from America tend to stay American. Is that true, or just the authors' speculation? Although it is easily explained. Everyone wants to be American because the USA, of all the countries in the world offers the greatest opportunities to the greatest number of people. They are the top of the food chain, in less nationalistic terms. (i'm not Ame…

Does the USA really offer the greatest opportunities to the greatest number of poor people as a share of the total population, of all countries in the world? Why do so many people from the USA believe this tripe without question?

It feels like the 'shining city on the hill' was extremely effective propaganda, for the domestic population.

Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

#74
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn't true if you mean in terms of achieving the classic American dream… Canada, Germany, the Netherlands and others are moving more people out of lower/middle class to middle/upper class as a percentage. I do not know in terms of raw numbers but via % we are behind.

Yet people in most of Western Europe (discounting Switzerland and Luxembourg and maybe Norway) are objectively poorer than even the poorest American states.

Yeah, but that's because USA basically swims in cash because since world uses dollar as core currency for the global economy USA has to print more dollars to match the growth of global economy to avoid deflation. And once it prints dollars it does with them what it pleases. Mainly buys ton of stuff from the world, but still keeps enough to maintain status of wealthy country.

It's no wonder people can get more cash it the country that basically prints it for the whole world.

Once the global economy start shrinking or the world moves to yuan or euro USA will descend to level of Eastern European country in a generation or two tops.

Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

#75
The Christian Science Monitor also ran a similar article last month that I feel is worth a read.

https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2021/0512/Is-politics...

Rather than try to drive any particular point this is more of a discussion piece about this moment in time.

Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

#76
We may be on the cusp of a great religious revival, due to the increased acceptance and eventual mainstreaming of psychedelics.

People often interpret their psychedelic experiences in religious terms, and psychedelic use has often created new religions and helped to engender an authentic reconnection to existing religions.

Mainstream religions rarely offer much more than platitudes or a place to socialize for the majority of their adherents, of whom many are part of the religion simply because their parents were, or because the church is the social center of their town.

They don't have an authentic connection to the teachings, many don't even read their sacred scriptures, rely on priests to tell them what to believe, and usually neither they nor their priests ever had a mystical experience.

Then psychedelics come in to the picture, and suddenly they may have a renewed sense of the sacred, religious texts and spaces come alive, and they may even come face to face with what they experience as the genuine heart of their tradition, including meeting, talking to or even being god.

This is not an uncommon occurrence, even for atheists and agnostics.

I don't think the mainstream culture has fully appreciated either how enormously powerful such experiences can be, nor their repercussions.

Historically, mainstream religions have been very against drug use, but it'll be interesting to see what happens when their churches, mosques, and synagogues start filling up with people who were drawn there through mystical experiences they had on psychedelics.

Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

#77
post #32
post #3

I wish we had a world where the discernment between science, axiom and ideology was a real thing ironed into the public muscle memory as much as ideology itself. Idealism.

The “science” most people believe (more accurately called scientism) is an aspect of the state secular religion.

Yeah, scientism used to be a huge problem at the end of the 19th/beginning of the 20th century, and we seem to be there again.

Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

#78
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s interesting seeing this point, which has been around the internet for at least a decade now, start to get printed in what are otherwise mainstream publications these days. I don’t know that I buy it, but I certainly understand and see the merit of the argument.

I don't really buy it, it seems to suggest that scientific discoveries are not questioned and changed constantly, when they absolutely are. It's not accurate to always refer to them as "beliefs."

I mean, I agree with you, it's not accurate to refer to "science" as "[a set of] beliefs" but that's sort of besides the point. The point others are making is that "believe the science" is not the mantra of a society that actually "does science" but one that "Practices The Science^(tm)".

Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

#79
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet people in most of Western Europe (discounting Switzerland and Luxembourg and maybe Norway) are objectively poorer than even the poorest American states.

Yes. when I lived in Sweden, I noticed that Swedes in general have less stuff. Smaller housing, fewer cars, less ability to buy stuff, and even go out. The average engineer salary was almost half (about 60%) of those in NYC and SF, while prices coffee/going out in Stockholm were almost the same as in NYC. Rent prices were lower though. But, their quality of life seemed higher overall. Less stressful in general, more…

Ardit,

You need to measure purchasing power using PPP rate, but even still NY and SF known to be expensive areas with high tax rates.

SF engineer could earn 200k year but this money could be much low as 80k in another state if you compare purchasing power.

It's complex. The Americans can always buy a car but never foods. This become a meme in my home country.

There are always trade offs.

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