Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home • Hacker News Board

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#891

Post by Noos » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 2:33 PM UTC

jwilber wrote: post #561

amin wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did they grow up with their biological father?

My twin brother and I grew up without a biological father, were very independent at an early age, and both have high-paying jobs in faang. Both well-adjusted, multiple relationships, successful, etc. I see a lot of Jordan Peterson-esque BS professing these “no biological father == neet” rules, and I’m not saying that’s the point you’re leading with your question, but am jumping at any opportunity to dispel it, just i…

and someone can successfully complete high end raids in world of warcraft despite being a paraplegic. Doesn't mean everyone should be able to do so or its too easy to raid. Don't view outliers and your own experience as standard; high achievers do this way too often and end up discounting the real difficulty and struggles in accomplishing such a thing.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#892

Post by nicbou » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 2:36 PM UTC

MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: post #397

samlevine wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dating isn't fun. At least it isn't for me as a middle aged divorce. I get matches, I meet interesting people and go on dates and the process is just emotionally exhausting. I would rather put in time into my job, or my friends, or my hobbies. If I can meet someone who wants to be part of my life, fantastic. If not, I will live until I don't.

As a 26 year old finishing up a Comp Sci degree, I'm in a similar camp. I mean I'd rate myself as a 5-6 straight up average. I get matches and have gone on several dates. What I've noticed is most men don't do profiles right at all. They show themselves off in what they do, not what's attractive. Also nobody every acknowledges that selfies are bad. I mean these are just little tips I've learned honing a profile over…

That's exactly why I don't do it. It's work. It's demanding, exhausting even.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#893

Post by abz10 » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 2:51 PM UTC

wouldChuckIt wrote: post #601

stemlord wrote: post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A person who does nothing with their life when they could be doing something is really a narcissist. I spent a mere year after college living with my parents, a very long and sad year, wondering if this was going to be the rest of my life. My next real job came somewhat out of sheer luck and I'm thankful for it because I could totally see myself having given up, still back there to this day, still having no idea how…

Made a throwaway for obvious reasons. I'm in the middle of that year right now. I was doing well - transferred from community college to a top university studying engineering. Perfect grades, several prestigious summer internships. Then I had a depressive episode. Grades went down the toilet, had to leave school. Spent a year getting my life back together, but the depression never really went away. I went back to sch…

Check yourself medically; you might have hEDS, or some other hormonal problem. It’s much more prevalent than people think. Check T3 thyroid for sub clinical, check your Testosterone (female and males). Check for post exertion fatigue by exercising to exhaustion and trying to repeat in a few days. You could do a FMa test. The official diagnosis for hEDS is crap, so go through the comobidities and see if there are other weird things about yourself that it could explain. I spent years thinking I was lazy before finally figuring it out.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#894

Post by sascha_sl » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 2:52 PM UTC

hebrox wrote: post #802

developer93 wrote: post #775

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, decades ago, men did run the world, to all intents and purposes. They're still in most positions of power (politics ceos etc), most things are designed by men, etc. This doesn't mean that it's the fault of every single man, any more than as a Brit who benefits from a legacy of empire that I'm personally responsible for whatever massacres. You can be aware of it without taking the blame.

There is a subtle difference between "men did run the world" and "women didn't run the world". The first one skips over all the men that also didn't run the world.

The point is more that men were the assumed default. Ambition was seen as healthy and positive in men and negative in women (the word “bossy” comes to mind). Large parts of the world and some parts of western societies still see it that way, as a sort of natural imperative.

So the average man certainly had more of an advantage. But there are lots of other factors of course, then and now. Class, race, disability status…

I often wish the public face of feminism was more intersectional. Unfortunately we get undifferentiated pop/choice feminism instead. I’m as tired of it as the next person, considering it usually ignores trans issues (beyond maybe some lip service) all together.

Also I feel like this entire thread seems to ignore the economic component of this discussion. Women are stagnant too. Our system is crumbling, and young people without access to generational wealth are suffering, there is no good path into the middle class anymore, so why bother at all? That is the main takeaway.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#895

Post by FooBarBizBazz » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 2:53 PM UTC

wwweston wrote: post #769

grammarnazzzi wrote: post #624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Women did not create the society that is hurting men emotionally and economically The extreme elements of 3rd wave feminism has influcenced society in ways that unfairly and negatively impact boys. Specifically the concept of "toxic masculinity". Toxic people are toxic. Toxic behaviors are toxic. Toxic people should be shamed and toxic behaviors should be discouraged. Boys should not be shamed for being masculine,…

> Toxic people are toxic. Yes, and generally when the term "toxic people" is used, few assume that the speaker is saying that "people are toxic" and "people should be shamed for being people." And yet... you've done pretty much that with the term "toxic masculinity." It's almost as if someone has persuaded you that adjectives are actually appositives. The phrase "toxic masculinity" no more implies that masculinity it…

"I'm not complaining about the Mexicans, I'm complaining about the LAZY Mexicans, can't you do logic?"

Nobody's fooled.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#896

Post by tacocataco » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 3:02 PM UTC

1-6 wrote: post #150

UncleOxidant wrote: post #113

I've got two nephews aged 34 and 32 who still live at home and play video games all the time and rarely leave their rooms. Neither has ever had a job that lasted more than a month or so. Neither ever learned to drive even though they live in a town with little or no public transit. They haven't had any education beyond high school. They seem wholly unprepared to navigate life without their parents. It's a slow motion…

Let's not forget that the Social Security is not getting funded so it's probably going to dry out sooner.

Just take the income cap off contributions. What's it at, $110-$150k?

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#897

Post by macinjosh » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 3:03 PM UTC

twh270 wrote: post #868

throoooway wrote: post #757

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dreading this when my sons grow up. “Hey, society and the media and politicians, institutions have all decided your nature is a problem and that you are assumed guilty, to be viewed with suspicion at all times. Oh and for some reason, you should still want to support this structure with your hard work and taxes, and shut up and never mention it.” Honestly - I don’t know why I would tell him he should accept this soci…

Taking a victim stance isn't helpful. Whoever you are and whatever you do, there's always going to be some group that doesn't like you or "your kind". Running away doesn't teach your kids how to face this; it just changes where they'll face it.

You’re right. Our society is rewarding those who claim victimhood above those that overcome which is worrying.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#898

Post by MeinBlutIstBlau » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 3:06 PM UTC

GloriousKoji wrote: post #507

MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a 26 year old finishing up a Comp Sci degree, I'm in a similar camp. I mean I'd rate myself as a 5-6 straight up average. I get matches and have gone on several dates. What I've noticed is most men don't do profiles right at all. They show themselves off in what they do, not what's attractive. Also nobody every acknowledges that selfies are bad. I mean these are just little tips I've learned honing a profile over…

> They show themselves off in what they do, not what's attractive. Can you elaborate on that? I thought the general advice is to show off what you do because you hope to find someone who also enjoys the same.

The other commenter was somewhat spot on. While it's cool that you went on a saltwater fishing trip, it's just a picture of you holding a fish. Or likewise killed a deer. A lot of women do not find that attractive on a dating profile. They will be fine with it if you mention that you do it on a date though. That's the key difference. It's not attractive whatsoever.

Now, the difference between doing it for fun once and a while and being a pro at something is completely different. You do a sport fishing league, own your own boat, and are die hard into it, it changes the context similar to what you're saying. Women would possibly find that attractive because you're not some schmuck. You've got clout somewhere and are an authority in it. That's the major difference that sets them apart. It's the exact reason why you see some SWE guys with attractive women even though they may not be attractive or seem autistic on the social specturm. They've achieved something and continually work at it. It's a subtle vetting process that states "I don't give up at the first sign of weakness and I am extremely motivated."

Basically once I moved my old profile toward doing cool things that I know interest women, my matches skyrocketed basically. It really made me understand why guys don't get swipes. It's literally a resume and you gotta make yourself the best candidate.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#899

Post by MeinBlutIstBlau » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 3:17 PM UTC

01100011 wrote: post #479

MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention, a lot of older housing which ends up being cheaper, has just a myriad of problems with it. They become massive money pits or take well beyond 10+ years to even make a dent beyond the interest paid. Plus you need to fix them constantly or put up with a subpar experience. Over time, I guarantee you save more time renting than you ever will buying a home. People forget to factor that moving the law, blow…

I try to tell this to kids having FOMO right now with the housing market going crazy(same feeling people had in '06, even if the causes were different). I bought a house young(26) and spent a good part of the next 16 years working on it. Sure, I enjoyed some of it, but much of it I did not. I did make money with the appreciation, but I also spent a lot on repairs and improvements. If I had focused on my career and my…

This is experience that nobody is told when they buy a house for the first time. Not to mention being tied down. Plus like you mentioned with your career and hobbies. They're just a shackle if your not committed to the lifestyle. Hopefully things worked out in the end.

For myself, I actually worked in the mortgage industry for a few years and nothing jaded me about homeownership more. It's a monumental scam unless you're a DINK family and maybe live in a condo. That's a bit smarter but the most expensive option out of all types of living usually.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#900

Post by shlant » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 3:21 PM UTC

TrispusAttucks wrote: post #673

flippinburgers wrote: post #511

Men are not doing as well as women in school. If you look in the wrong places on the internet, media, or daily life, all you see is negativity towards masculinity. In addition, there doesn't appear to be any broad social system that is geared towards supporting men. The fact that men don't tend to be a socially adept doesn't help. This all feels like the perfect storm and there are plenty of people who act like "men…

At a recent scholarship awards ceremony I attended the woman gathered much more scholarships than the men. Of course they probably very well deserved it. However there were many women-only scholarships that I am assuming were setup to increase college admissions of women. Which is of course also perfectly okay. However, there is a huge growing gender gap [1] in college admissions that favors women. If an equality pro…

your link brings up an interesting statistic that I wasn't aware of. However, you can tell by the language that the author of the article is very clearly biased and I wonder what the actual reality of the situation is. Some questions that might help with revealing the full picture:

1. What would be the ratio of male vs. female degrees if everyone had the access to higher education? Maybe by their own volition men would choose to get a higher education less often than woman? The writer seems to think 50/50 is "fair" but I don't think he would agree that equality of outcome is a metric we should strive for.

2. How much of the shift in the ratio has been due to Woman's Centers? There are a huge number of relevant societal/economic/logistical factors that have changed in the last 40 years that would have an impact on woman having the means/desire/permission to attend college.

3. How many woman are there that previously did not go to college (for the reasons above) that are now making that choice? Could these woman's centers still be relevant for assisting woman in "making up for lost time"?

I don't claim to have the answers to these questions but I think anyone who isn't considering them is probably missing something from the larger picture - this is a complex issue after all.