Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home • Hacker News Board

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#561

Post by jwilber » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 1:23 AM UTC

amin wrote: post #262

UncleOxidant wrote: post #113

I've got two nephews aged 34 and 32 who still live at home and play video games all the time and rarely leave their rooms. Neither has ever had a job that lasted more than a month or so. Neither ever learned to drive even though they live in a town with little or no public transit. They haven't had any education beyond high school. They seem wholly unprepared to navigate life without their parents. It's a slow motion…

Did they grow up with their biological father?

My twin brother and I grew up without a biological father, were very independent at an early age, and both have high-paying jobs in faang. Both well-adjusted, multiple relationships, successful, etc.

I see a lot of Jordan Peterson-esque BS professing these “no biological father == neet” rules, and I’m not saying that’s the point you’re leading with your question, but am jumping at any opportunity to dispel it, just in case.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#562

Post by ClumsyPilot » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 1:23 AM UTC

JoeyBananas wrote: post #504

paulpauper wrote: post #382

I don't think it's a tragedy. The overly dramatic media and pundits get this all wrong in labeling it such. Young people are simply responding to incentives to live at home longer. Living expenses keep going up relative to inflation and wages, such as home prices, rent, insurance, etc. Living at home is a good way save money, even for the employed. Family formation is expensive and fraught with risks such as divorce…

I completely reject everything that you are saying. A grown man (or woman) who is dependent on their parents at that level has very serious problems because they are the equivalents of obese domestic dogs in a world full of wolves. Left to their own devices, they would have nothing. A person who does nothing with their life when they could be doing something is really a narcissist. They take it for granted that other…

"they don't understand that there could be any reason to work hard"

The cultural pedestal of "working hard" is tragically misplaced. Market promotes those that work smart or gable at the right opportunity, corporate politics promotes the well connected, people that support their family or community the most deserve respect, but the poor folks stocking amazon warehouses 12 hours a day get screwed.

"In their minds, it's not really their fault that they are failures and they go to great lengths to convince other people of these lies."

sometimes it is really not their fault, but one day their parents will not be able to provide for them, and that's when the real tragedy will begin.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#563

Post by grawprog » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 1:24 AM UTC

yaitsyaboi wrote: post #442

grawprog wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked a bunch of jobs over the years where i've ended up being in the homes of a lot of middle class - upper class people, not that it doesn't happen with working class people too, but anyway a common thing i would see was young men my own age or older living at home with their parents, not employed. I remember one lady in particular tried desperately to see if we could get her son a job. He'd taken a crane ope…

As a person who is in this age range and in essentially the opposite position--my disabled mother and college age sister live with me in coastal California--the kind of thing you're describing with the guy who wouldn't come out of the room is bonkers. I know this kind of person exists as an archetype but between your anecdote and the article I'm just baffled at the apparent prevalence. I guess part of it is the fact…

I felt bad writing that seemingly picking on the middle-upper class, because as much as I've seen that there...the worst example I know of is not that.

A family member of mine has not ever had a job. Everyone has tried to help him. I've given him two jobs at two different companies personally. His mom works at a dollar store and a cheap clothing store just to pay rent. She begs him to work. He spends all his time playing Xbox. She's gotten to the point where she's going to kick him out and move in with her other son. He's responded by drinking and hanging out with homeless junkies. Thank fuck as far as i know he hasn't started doing the strange purple heroin they do nowadays apparently and shit. But it's really terrible watching this. He's almost 30. There's no reason this should be happening.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#564

Post by t-writescode » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 1:24 AM UTC

ziziyO wrote: post #557

deadite wrote: post #532

>The fact that men don't tend to be a socially adept doesn't help. Men are socially adept in their society and a society of their peers. Just not in this one which seeks to break them down and punishes them for not being women.

When all you’ve known is privilege, equality can feel like oppression.

Forgive me, but then it is not the kind of equality we should strive for.

I want everyone on better, higher footing, not the highly footed to be brought down.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#565

Post by mahathu » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 1:24 AM UTC

shimonabi wrote: post #157

I had a pretty rough time between the years 2004 and 2016. I dropped out of college for a career track I dreamt about since childhood and I didn't know what to do with my life. I had no job experience and the recession hit also. If you live in a small country, where everyone is related on average 2.5 degrees away to a random person, it's pretty hard to get a job if you don't have any family connections. After several…

Albeit not exactly helpful, I just wanted to thank you for sharing this. Also not American, and I'm too in a pretty dark place right now. I gave up the opportunity of attending a undergrad program I dreamed of at a uni I dreamed of for years, and am sorta lost now. I have a degree in computer science so will be able to get some job (although I never really liked the industry) once my savings run out eventually. But this is really not where I hoped I would be just 2-3 years ago. I also don't play video games (but don't judge people who do of course)

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#566

Post by dorkmind » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 1:25 AM UTC

> fewer young men are in the work force Hmm.. I should change my name to "Fewer Young Men" and get a job!!

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#567

Post by mycologos » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 1:27 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #229

vecter wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think video game addiction definitely contributes. I used to spend a fair amount of time playing first person shooters in my childhood 15-20 years ago. I haven't played much nowadays but these games provide a sense of "progress" and "accomplishment", which people would probably normally seek outside. Even in the past 5 years, I've caught myself having a reflex to open a game like Apex Legends or Valorant whenever I…

I worked as a video game tester briefly while working my way through college (Mattel Intellivision). It permanently destroyed my interest in video games, along with the fake rewards it offers.

The brief synopsis of video game tester I remember reading somewhere is that it's actually incredibly boring, because it involves finding and exhaustively reproducing bugs, not actually playing a game. Is that accurate?

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#568

Post by random314 » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 1:28 AM UTC

JoeyBananas wrote: post #504

paulpauper wrote: post #382

I don't think it's a tragedy. The overly dramatic media and pundits get this all wrong in labeling it such. Young people are simply responding to incentives to live at home longer. Living expenses keep going up relative to inflation and wages, such as home prices, rent, insurance, etc. Living at home is a good way save money, even for the employed. Family formation is expensive and fraught with risks such as divorce…

I completely reject everything that you are saying. A grown man (or woman) who is dependent on their parents at that level has very serious problems because they are the equivalents of obese domestic dogs in a world full of wolves. Left to their own devices, they would have nothing. A person who does nothing with their life when they could be doing something is really a narcissist. They take it for granted that other…

How do you know they are failures, if they are happy with their situation.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#569

Post by ayngg » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 1:28 AM UTC

flippinburgers wrote: post #511

Men are not doing as well as women in school. If you look in the wrong places on the internet, media, or daily life, all you see is negativity towards masculinity. In addition, there doesn't appear to be any broad social system that is geared towards supporting men. The fact that men don't tend to be a socially adept doesn't help. This all feels like the perfect storm and there are plenty of people who act like "men…

I think it starts early and the little things compound throughout most domains in childhood development which leads to these men feeling completely lost and unable to navigate the current society that doesn't really care about them unless they are the antagonist to some narrative. Outside of family, nobody really cares when they are falling through the cracks, and nobody really cares to try and pick them up afterwards.

Just look at the behaviors of people who are participating in society, why are they on average getting married less, later in life, having less kids, and buying homes later if ever, when these are all supposed to be important stepping stones of adulthood. The incentives that used to be there are harder to reach for people that actually have it together, and getting further out of reach for average people. When life sucks, might as well drop out.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#570

Post by tengbretson » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 1:29 AM UTC

mensetmanusman wrote: post #469

lotsofpulp wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those old people should have invested in kids. Or be content with their fate. I hope I can muster up the will to take myself out before someone else has to take care of me. Or maybe there will not even be anyone to take care of me, so it will be a moot point.

Old people could volunteer for long term space travel while frozen

What sort of people do you think remote colonies need?