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Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

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Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#561

Post by midasuni »

reader_mode wrote: post #520
dukeyukey wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Silicon Valley is top, we all know that. But in terms of startup funding, after the SFBA and Beijing comes London. In terms of startup-friendliness, London typically beats every US hub except the SFBA, and occasionally ties with NYC. I'll give you places like Stockholm and Amsterdam don't quite hit those heights, but still have healthy ecosystems going for them. But it's difficult to describe the 'EU' way of doing th…

London is not EU, even when they were a member they were a separate story.

Pre covid U.K. was part of EU, very little has changed yet - same regulations and taxes as in 2019

Claiming “ahh U.K. is different” you might as well say “ahh Bay Area is different”.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#562

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

j_wtf_all_taken wrote: post #493
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US creating top paying tech jobs for the working class and not taxing them to death so they can grow into a flourishing middles class is also helping people. >large part of the US economy that consists of hurting people Source? If you're talking about the defense sector then you should also know that the UK and France were several years in a row number 2 and 3 worldwide in arms sales, including to the Saudi regime.

Social media giants? Environment-polluting industry? BTW, Germany's also a top seller of weapons! We even delivered chemicals to Assad. So yeah, in that area we really are on par.

> Environment-polluting industry?

Like VW's cheating diesel engines who's emissions I have to breathe as I walk/bike to work?

>Social media giants?

Nobody forces you to use those social media giants whereas I can't choose to only breathe only air not contaminated by VW diesel emissions.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#563

Post by refurb »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #327
laurent92 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the end, one may talk about all the startups (when the BPI pumps billions into it, I sure hope there are some startups and medium companies), but EU has proven unable to build an Apple . It would be dismantled here, and CEO beaten up before reaching any interesting level. DailyMotion (French) was as big as Youtube. Many others like this. We always end up #2, and the Silicon Valley still decides what is ok to say o…

The EU doesn't build Googles or Amazons, because those companies are inherently unhealthy monopolies. But it has built numerous tech successes, including Nokia, Spotify, Wise, Airbus, and others. In reality the EU has curbed the imperial pretensions of aggressive US corporates numerous times - including Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Apple, and (soon) Facebook.

“Because those companies are inherently unhealthy monopolies.”

Yeah, I’m not a billionaire because that much money brings problems. I choose not to be one...but I definitely could be.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#564

Post by chrisseaton »

sudosysgen wrote: post #331
nxc18 wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you stopped working, society wouldn’t care. If everyone did, there would be a problem; no more good food or vacation accommodations. I’m frustrated in the lack of big picture thinking in this discussion generally. Imagine how much better off we’d all be if the people at Intel, Boeing, or Qualcomm took their jobs seriously. Imagine if there was (non-joke) US competition to DJI for drones. Imagine if there was an An…

Honestly, on the balance, I don't think any of the examples you mentioned would do that much to my general happiness. I care about the other things in life so much more than about processor performance. If Google Maps hadn't come someone else would do it. They didn't invent digital maps. I don't think society in general would be very different. If we lost basic things like safety, food, and so on, then yes that matte…

> Honestly, on the balance, I don't think any of the examples you mentioned would do that much to my general happiness. I care about the other things in life so much more than about processor performance.

Current essential advances in civilisation that I'm sure you enjoy, such as healthcare, are fundamentally reliant on processor technology developed in the US after the war. If we'd left it to European countries our standards of living would be much reduced.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#565

Post by varjag »

thow-01187 wrote: post #318
yoz-y wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The major problem in EU is not really starting the companies. Most countries have ways to incorporate by filing a form and sending an email or two. The problem though is financing, French investors for example are really stingy and you won’t get somebody to just throw a few millions at you to see if you succeed. France has decided to build the “French Silicon Valley” multiple times by grouping schools and companies t…

> French investors for example are really stingy and you won’t get somebody to just throw a few millions at you to see if you succeed Isn't that...normal? Where did the attitude come from - that startups are somehow entitled to funding worth of several lifetime median incomes, for their half-baked business ideas that are unlikely to ever turn profit? That if the country doesn't shower the founders with angel investor…

If they stingy French investors have invested then into Docker, which now you say is posed for "a buyout at ridiculous valuation"? Yes sounds like they missed out big.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#566

Post by JumpCrisscross »

dukeyukey wrote: post #511
reader_mode wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a thriving tech scene in Europe and we do quite well! Is there really ? I see attempts at copying the US tech scene, but a lot of it seems structured to suck money out of government funds and programs. I see very little private investment. Just recently I talked to a local VC, in a casual chat about how they started their fund I found out they pulled money out of a EU fund, they had to put up like 25% of t…

Silicon Valley is top, we all know that. But in terms of startup funding, after the SFBA and Beijing comes London. In terms of startup-friendliness, London typically beats every US hub except the SFBA, and occasionally ties with NYC. I'll give you places like Stockholm and Amsterdam don't quite hit those heights, but still have healthy ecosystems going for them. But it's difficult to describe the 'EU' way of doing th…

> in terms of startup funding, after the SFBA and Beijing comes London

Do not believe this is correct. In 2016, London was No. 7, after 6 American cities; it was ahead of Beijing and Shanghai individually, though not collectively [1]. The next European city is Paris, in No. 16, after Chicago, Austin and Mumbai.

[1[] https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/01/globa...

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#567

Post by oytis »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #544
j_wtf_all_taken wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source? Wrong for Germany, those immigrants from 2015 integrated well into the workforce.

> Wrong for Germany, those immigrants from 2015 integrated well into the workforce I have no horse in this race, but I'm curious about a source for this, mostly for how it's been measured.

First one that I could find.https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/arbeitsmarkt-fluechtlin...

It says that by 2020 half of them has found a job, which is way higher unemployment rate than is average in Germany though.

But even if they don't find jobs themselves, at the very least they have children which is critical for sustainability of a country with inverted population pyramid.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#568

Post by j_wtf_all_taken »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #562
j_wtf_all_taken wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social media giants? Environment-polluting industry? BTW, Germany's also a top seller of weapons! We even delivered chemicals to Assad. So yeah, in that area we really are on par.

> Environment-polluting industry? Like VW's cheating diesel engines who's emissions I have to breathe as I walk/bike to work? >Social media giants? Nobody forces you to use those social media giants whereas I can't choose to only breathe only air not contaminated by VW diesel emissions.

Yeah but at least we have those rules that VW could then break.

And the negative effects of social media affect me if I use it or not.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#569

Post by midasuni »

dukeyukey wrote: post #518
reader_mode wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get this part - 2 weeks PTO - OK - tech companies are flexible in looking for good talent - if you're getting paid 2x you can work 6months a year to break even. Now taking off 6 months unpaid isn't realistic - but a month off isn't that unusual. And the healthcare part what are you even talking about - what employer doesn't provide healthcare in tech ? You'll likely have a good plan an better coverage than NH…

> You'll likely have a good plan an better coverage than NHS What would an NHS-style plan cost in the US? Like, I'd be happy in a shared hospital room and having lower priority for non-emergency care, but in exchange having 0 co-pay, 0 deductible, 100% coverage for everything (including long-term care), 0 ambulance fees and a maximum prescription cost per item of $12/month?

Per item? U.K. prescription costs £108 for 12 months, no matter how many items you have.

(Unless you’re in scotland and Wales where it’s just free, because prescriptions are a trivial cost)

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#570

Post by varjag »

pjc50 wrote: post #317
onion2k wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll end up with fewer businesses, but the ones that won't get started are the ones people aren't really willing to put effort in to starting. You'll only really lose the easy "fill in a form and off you go" businesses. I don't imagine that's much of a loss. If someone has an idea, and a real drive to start, then they can start pretty much anywhere, even if it isn't super simple to register a company. So, really, m…

Every cost causes a difference at the margin. Businesses are fragile when small. And most of these costs are just economic dead weight, ridiculous paper proof of work schemes where all you're really proving is that you've wasted a certain amount of time and money. If I were to identify one big flaw, it would be that EU governments don't recognize that small businesses can't do regulatory compliance as much, so they s…

There's usually a certain amount of exemptions already. Things like not requiring audits for companies below certain turnover etc.

The cost/effort of running a tiny deadbeat company in Europe can be very marginal (I run one). That's how all plumbers and carpenters and car mechanics run their businesses: if they can you can too.

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