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Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

economist.com

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Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#541

Post by Bayart »

dieortin wrote: post #454
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Europe did a better job in distributing wealth more equally This assumes ex ante a similar quantity of wealth. Europe’s GDP per capita is lower than America’s. Where it’s higher, the growth is slower. The more-even distribution comes at the expense of quality of life or economic power. (Though not for Europe’s well-entrenched multi-generational and often legally-entitled wealthy.) To be clear, I don’t believe in mo…

I’d love to know why you think quality of life is higher in the US.

To be fair to Americans and to ourselves, we have often different and conflicting notions of what quality of live entails. That results in quite a bit of cognitive dissonance. For example we don't value square footage nearly as much as you guys do

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#542

Post by j_wtf_all_taken »

gjhh244 wrote: post #519
oytis wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Denmark legally discriminates agwinst "non-western" immigrants and officially aims at not taking any refugees at all. France is ruled by a rather right-wing government and has a chance to have a far-right one next. Germany hasn't seen a left-wing government for 16 years, will likely not see it for 4 more years (if ever). The rest can be easily compromised by economic stagnation, to have good social security you need…

Mass migration from developing world is mostly a burden to European welfare systems these days, since a lot of it is humanitarian and most humanitarian migrants lack skills to do well in our job markets.

Source?

Wrong for Germany, those immigrants from 2015 integrated well into the workforce.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#543

Post by JumpCrisscross »

dukeyukey wrote: post #488
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the aforementioned corporations grew 500%-1000% in their profits and valuations since 2010. Meanwhile, the US productivity has grown by 4.7%. Had the SV tech been a clear net positive to the economy, the productivity growth would look different This is not necessarily true. The American economy is huge. Sections can grow slowly, sections can grow fast, all adding value while the bulk grows moderately. > When the te…

> 4.7% growth accumulates to close to 60% over ten years. Sure, but I think OP meant productivity growth for the whole decade was 4.7%, not annually (though I'd like to see a source for that).

> OP meant productivity growth for the whole decade was 4.7%

Fair enough. Real U.S. total factor productivity growth from 2009 to 2019 was 5.8%; from 1995 to 2005 12% [1].

[1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RTFPNAUSA632NRUG

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#544

Post by JumpCrisscross »

j_wtf_all_taken wrote: post #542
gjhh244 wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mass migration from developing world is mostly a burden to European welfare systems these days, since a lot of it is humanitarian and most humanitarian migrants lack skills to do well in our job markets.

Source? Wrong for Germany, those immigrants from 2015 integrated well into the workforce.

> Wrong for Germany, those immigrants from 2015 integrated well into the workforce

I have no horse in this race, but I'm curious about a source for this, mostly for how it's been measured.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#545

Post by midasuni »

sildur wrote: post #178
laurent92 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the end, one may talk about all the startups (when the BPI pumps billions into it, I sure hope there are some startups and medium companies), but EU has proven unable to build an Apple . It would be dismantled here, and CEO beaten up before reaching any interesting level. DailyMotion (French) was as big as Youtube. Many others like this. We always end up #2, and the Silicon Valley still decides what is ok to say o…

EU built a Nokia. Until MS infiltrated and dismantled it, that is.

I haven’t seen anyone discussing Rim/BlackBerry - who were Canadian, made great smart phones, but lost out because of the crucial mistake of concentrating on corporate IT as the customers, and by the time they pivoted to consumers with thins like BBM they were too late.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#546

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

j_wtf_all_taken wrote: post #536
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Did you talk to enough Europeans to know we can only name the BionTech guy as an example of a successful immigrant? Please name some for me. Especially in Germany.

I am one European. You would have to talk to a lot of Europeans to make the claim you made.

The fact that you can't name any just proves my point. Thank you.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#547

Post by JumpCrisscross »

ucha wrote: post #410
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the entire EU economy grew at the same speed than the US one but not its 500 bigger companies This is literally the article’s point. Europe and the U.S. grew similarly. The U.S. and China produced more large companies. (The Continent’s larger companies also being older than the other two’s.) > supposedly more investment in R&D Not supposedly, factually. The article explicitly states this. It’s the Economist; if you…

I agree with this and on top of it, the GDP per capita of the EU grew at the same pace as that of the US over the last 20 years only because poorer Eastern European countries are catching up to Western Europe. The GDP growth rates in France, Germany, UK etc have been anemic during the same period. The EU did a great job at distributing wealth eastward, the GDP per capita of Slovakia for example doubled in the last 20…

> EU did a great job at distributing wealth eastward

That's uncharitable. The EU did a great job of growing Eastern Europe by promoting good institutions. There was wealth redistribution. But it alone is insufficient to explain the growth.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#548

Post by marvin »

C19is20 wrote: post #338
thijsc wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reporting back: Your comment is utter nonsense. There is a thriving tech scene in Europe and we do quite well! Reliable and cheap health care is a huge boon for small entrepreneurs. There’s little regulation to deal with as a software company. Child care and great schools are cheap or free. Yes firing people is much harder, that is a different context compared to the US you have to properly plan for. Which we do over…

Firing isn't 'harder', it just has to be done correctly.

Giving two written warnings two weeks apart for one of the five objective reasons that are grounds for firing, then firing with a three month notice period is by definition harder than saying "you're fired, please leave the building immediately".

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#549

Post by reader_mode »

allendoerfer wrote: post #390
reader_mode wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is no different with regards to movement. Just consider public health care in say Norway and in Bulgaria. Yeah it's financed indirectly by public funding but the quality can be terrible. In Croatia (where I'm from) you will regularly wait for 6+ months on life altering procedures and tests. And the public health system is in a constant crisis because of underfunding and overuse - just a few months ago drug sup…

It‘s a little bit unfair to use Croatia and compare it to the US. Health care is still national in the EU. It makes sense for a way poorer country to have a worse system. Let’s see how the Croatian system will be, once the overall standard of living has caught up.

But that's the part people don't often realise. They talk about the richest countries in EU while ingoring the poor, reality is EU has way more inequality and variability between countries. And it's not just poor countries that have problem with overloaded public healthcare, it's a gradient.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#550

Post by throwaway3699 »

nicoburns wrote: post #490
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US creating top paying tech jobs for the working class and not taxing them to death so they can grow into a flourishing middles class is also helping people. >large part of the US economy that consists of hurting people Source? If you're talking about the defense sector then you should also know that the UK and France were several years in a row number 2 and 3 worldwide in arms sales, including to the Saudi regime.

There are plenty of well paid tech jobs in Europe. The ridiculous levels of pay you can get in the US are really creating more inequality rather than addressing it.

I wouldn't seek "ridiculous levels of pay" if I could maintain a decent quality of life. Fact is, my rent at a one bedroom flat is more expensive than my parents mortgage for a full house. Of course people are looking for ways to get ahead.
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