Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing? • Hacker News Board

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#481

Post by ChuckNorris89 » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 9:38 AM UTC

tluyben2 wrote: post #446

joelbluminator wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in the US your quality of life is fantastic if you are rich I would argue almost everywhere in the world quality of life is fantastic if you are rich. What is the huge difference between living in a gated community in California to doing it in Thailand?

That in Thailand that would cost almost nothing. And personally, it is much nicer on probably almost everything besides the small issue that the country is completely owned by the military. But yes, you are right: rich is also better in NL. But it is not 1000x better: it is just better. Subjective of course; if you enjoy driving McLarens into trees then rich is a lot better. I have the feeling, and again, I do not li…

> I walked (yes, strange EU thing where one uses legs instead of wheels) through some part of Fort Lauderdale and it looked like a bloody war zone. I could not live in a country that permits that.

Your snarky comment is just pretentious cherry-picking. I can walk you through some neighborhoods in France, Sweden and the UK where you'd also wouldn't want to live.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#482

Post by midasuni » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 9:39 AM UTC

j_wtf_all_taken wrote: post #372

pydry wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's changing. A search engine index requires titanic amounts of capital. Likewise so does building a web services platform that can compete. Meanwhile, if you don't have a platform like that to build off you are severely constrained in many other markets. Look at elastic - this is the kind of business that will dry up in the next 5-7 years. It's structurally unable to compete without being part of a major web serv…

What's your point? That letting tech giants taking over just for a little faster innovation is worth it? Maybe the European approach is a little slower, but leads to better results? But then ... what technology was really advanced by companies like Facebook? Except the ad-surveillance-machine and stuff you only need if you run a multi-billion-people "social" network ... the only thing they innovate in is business mod…

Once big companies take over innovation stops and other companies win.

The US does have some major advantages, marketing, flag waving, cultural supremacy (which feeds into marketing), and the ability to create and exploit rent seeking at a global scale.

It benefits the companies and the share holders, but doesn’t neccersarilly benefit the American worker. Nobody care that Nike and Addidas are used globally when the employees are in Bangladesh on 10 cents an hour.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#483

Post by pelorat » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 9:40 AM UTC

StreamBright wrote: post #432

kpmah wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NHS is one of the most efficient health systems in the world.

And? What is your point? The Dutch is also one of the best. Singapore too. You can bring examples pro contra for both types. I think the regulation that makes a healthcare good or bad, not that it is private or public. Many public healthcares are in Eastern Europe are bad. Some private healthcares are also bad. I still think that a combination of private and public offering is probably the best with regulation being…

> The Dutch is also one of the best.

Sure, once you get passed the useless home doctor (huisarts).

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#484

Post by vagrantJin » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 9:41 AM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #413

j_wtf_all_taken wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> the entire EU economy grew at the same speed than the US one but not its 500 bigger companies > This is literally the article’s point. Europe and the U.S. grew similarly. The U.S. and China produced more large companies. (The Continent’s larger companies also being older than the other two’s.) So Europe did a better job in distributing wealth more equally, while in the US and China you got a massive concentration…

> Europe did a better job in distributing wealth more equally This assumes ex ante a similar quantity of wealth. Europe’s GDP per capita is lower than America’s. Where it’s higher, the growth is slower. The more-even distribution comes at the expense of quality of life or economic power. (Though not for Europe’s well-entrenched multi-generational and often legally-entitled wealthy.) To be clear, I don’t believe in mo…

Careful about what you wish for. Europe taking a backseat is all fun and games until you realise that the US has no legs without EU. None at all.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#485

Post by j_wtf_all_taken » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 9:41 AM UTC

microtonal wrote: post #463

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German and Austrian broadband is equally worse.

Because of a lack of competition, it’s the same issue as the US, but at a smaller scale (at least in most areas you can subscribe to multiple ISPs). E.g. in The Netherlands you can subscribe to a large number of ISPs. In the largest part of the country either through *DSL or cable. Increasingly also fiber. This is because the government regulated internet access very early on. When the state telephone company was pri…

Yeah it heavily depends where you live, in Germany. In or near larger cities, there's lots of really good options.

Its funny how Germany was ruled for 16 years now by a party whose voters live mostly in rural areas, but didn't do a lot for those areas ...

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#486

Post by varjag » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 9:43 AM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #451

tovej wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US upward social mobility is among the worst in the world. US workers are stuck in a rat race that simply doesn't exist to the same extent in Europe.

I beg to differ. The fact is hard working immigrants in the US have a much higher chance of becoming successful than in Europe. Pretty much all the US tech companies are now run by immigrants of minority backgrounds while, for example, Eastern European and Turkish immigrants in Germany are still regarded as cleaners and kebab salesmen, with the only notable exception they can name being the Turkish CEO of BionTech.

Even the top tier of decision making political class in the USA has many immigrants. In Europe it's still largely token presence faces in auxiliary positions.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#487

Post by zimpenfish » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 9:43 AM UTC

systemvoltage wrote: post #461

dieortin wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d love to know why you think quality of life is higher in the US.

You can check some objective data here - OECD Better Life Index: http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/

It's objective, perhaps, but not overly useful - e.g. the US gets 8.9 for health, partially because the life expectancy at birth is about the average. Except that completely ignores the quality of that life (ironic) and things like "going bankrupt because you broke your leg in a car accident", etc.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#488

Post by dukeyukey » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 9:43 AM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #448

thow-01187 wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imho, what was happening in the Silicon Valley economy looks much more like displacement of value rather than creation of value (1). Google/Facebook have displaced other ad formats, redirecting money to themselves. AWS have displaced IT technicians in other corporations, redirecting money to themselves. Apple is selling overpriced commodity hardware, redirecting money to themselves. Uber is displacing taxis, redirect…

> the aforementioned corporations grew 500%-1000% in their profits and valuations since 2010. Meanwhile, the US productivity has grown by 4.7%. Had the SV tech been a clear net positive to the economy, the productivity growth would look different This is not necessarily true. The American economy is huge. Sections can grow slowly, sections can grow fast, all adding value while the bulk grows moderately. > When the te…

> 4.7% growth accumulates to close to 60% over ten years.

Sure, but I think OP meant productivity growth for the whole decade was 4.7%, not annually (though I'd like to see a source for that).

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#489

Post by pelorat » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 9:43 AM UTC

deertick1 wrote: post #127

nodemaker wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm so 1) the corporate tax rate and other tax benefits in many EU countries is much lower than the US (I imagine you must have heard of US companies using their European operations to dodge us taxes) 2) The quality of labor you can hire is generally higher in europe (for example its common knowledge that facebook london has better engineers) I think what the us has is access to venture capital which i agree is diffi…

I have a really hard time believing theres higher quality talent in Europe in general.

In Europe college and university is cheaper (and in some places free). Also kids and younger persons are more tech savvy in Europe.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#490

Post by nicoburns » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 9:43 AM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #437

j_wtf_all_taken wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it nice that a large part of the European economy consists of stuff helping people (the "state activities" you mention) vs. the large part of the US economy that consists of hurting people?

US creating top paying tech jobs for the working class and not taxing them to death so they can grow into a flourishing middles class is also helping people. >large part of the US economy that consists of hurting people Source? If you're talking about the defense sector then you should also know that the UK and France were several years in a row number 2 and 3 worldwide in arms sales, including to the Saudi regime.

There are plenty of well paid tech jobs in Europe. The ridiculous levels of pay you can get in the US are really creating more inequality rather than addressing it.