Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing? • Hacker News Board

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#41

Post by andrewxdiamond » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 1:35 AM UTC

underwater wrote: post #29

okareaman wrote: post #9

The opening paragraph: In 1984 a besuited 20-something American executive on a visit to France offered Europeans a few tips for corporate success. Entrepreneurs needed to be given a second chance if they failed and government bureaucrats made for lousy investors, he told a television interviewer. His advice was sage. But European companies ruled the global corporate roost alongside those of America and, occasionally,…

On the other hand, Steve Jobs rejected conventional medicine when he became sick, which may have contributed to his premature death.

It’s almost as if experts in one area (business) are often novices in other areas (medicine)

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#42

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 1:36 AM UTC

rsj_hn wrote: post #31

mqus wrote: post #5

The graphs seem to me like they were selectively showing data which makes europe look bad. E.g. only showing the market cap of big companies or showing the decline of the european share of gdp but not the US one (which I assume was also falling), etc. Of course they made it to support the argument but to me it made their case much less valid.

East Asia industrializing does not somehow diminish Europe or the U.S., so measures like "global share of GDP" for the continent have nothing to do with the subject matter at hand, which is why Europe, with certainly a sufficiently large GDP, is not able to give birth to large corporations at the same rate as the U.S. Now we can argue whether being able to do this is a good thing or a bad thing. But for some reason c…

[deleted]

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#43

Post by 238475235243 » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 1:37 AM UTC

I've lived in a few different parts of the EU, and couldn't imagine a worse idea than starting a company there (which I did, once).

Starting is hard enough without the general negative attitudes, the government insanities, the insane taxes, the low work ethic, the 8 weeks of vacation every month (I exaggerate, slightly). And I was in one of the two best EU countries, God only knows how bad it is in Spain or Italy or whatever where opening for business more than one day a week is seen as aggressive. (again, I exaggerate slightly).

If anyone disagrees with this article who's in the US, I dare you to go and try and start something in the EU and report back. Not the UK, the EU.

Glory to the US, and the ability to move States with little friction. Glory to the LLC. Glory to firing someone with less than six months notice (I'm looking at you, Belgium). Glory to sales tax below 20%. Glory to the country I chose as home, which so many natives seem to be delusional about how terrible it is.

One day I hope the EU lives up to the dream of being a genuine federation of EU states, with zero friction movement of labor (this is completely laughable now compared to the US), defends its borders instead of giving up on them, allows free and fair competition and puts its citizens above the bizarre EU commission and its bonkers methods and plans.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#44

Post by passerby1 » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 1:42 AM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #30

Renaud wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just better worker protection. It's the whole system that has more social safeties for everyone. You might be better off with better conditions working for a top American company but you are not most people, you are part of a privileged few who had the capacity (opportunity, financial, intellectual) to be part of a a select who can enjoy this position. You're also dependent on your company to provide these b…

> knowing you will get support if you lose your job, get cared for if you get sick and when you get old, have an education that is not financially elitist, make enough to live -modestly- and feed your family on a single job But North American companies also outperform on this. My health insurance is better than a local company. My sick coverage is better than a local company. My educational opportunities are better t…

> feed your family on a single job

I think it's expected that both family partners work, at least in Sweden.

Otherwise it's very tight economically, unless one has some rich inheritance

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#45

Post by rdiddly » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 1:43 AM UTC

It's not a bug, it's a feature. Corporations in Europe have to pay taxes and follow laws and stuff, don't they? They'll never get to be huge, hypertrophic and out-of-control at that rate! This article talks as if having big corporations with big profits is the entire reason for life itself. In fact most people in America have to give up quite a lot, in order to enable such stellar gains for a few. I wouldn't chalk it up to any particular management brilliance, either; it's a "business friendly climate" shall we say. Meanwhile China accomplishes the same thing via active state repression. Nothing to emulate necessarily in either case.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#46

Post by okareaman » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 1:44 AM UTC

analog31 wrote: post #37

okareaman wrote: post #9

The opening paragraph: In 1984 a besuited 20-something American executive on a visit to France offered Europeans a few tips for corporate success. Entrepreneurs needed to be given a second chance if they failed and government bureaucrats made for lousy investors, he told a television interviewer. His advice was sage. But European companies ruled the global corporate roost alongside those of America and, occasionally,…

Yet they moved their taxable entity to Ireland, if I understand things correctly. I'm not sure what it means to say that they're an "American" company. And what do we actually gain from having companies nominally located in the US?

With the Apple mothership, Google, Facebook and Twitter headquarters just a few miles from my house, it's hard not to feel hometown pride and really, why should I? I'm aware of their problems but I have normal human emotions.

Yet they moved their taxable entity to Mars, if I understand things correctly. I'm not sure what it means to say that they're an "Earth" company. And what do we actually gain from having companies nominally located on Earth?

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#47

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 1:44 AM UTC

passerby1 wrote: post #44

chrisseaton wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> knowing you will get support if you lose your job, get cared for if you get sick and when you get old, have an education that is not financially elitist, make enough to live -modestly- and feed your family on a single job But North American companies also outperform on this. My health insurance is better than a local company. My sick coverage is better than a local company. My educational opportunities are better t…

> feed your family on a single job I think it's expected that both family partners work, at least in Sweden. Otherwise it's very tight economically, unless one has some rich inheritance

[deleted]

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#48

Post by passerby1 » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 1:48 AM UTC

rsj_hn wrote: post #31

mqus wrote: post #5

The graphs seem to me like they were selectively showing data which makes europe look bad. E.g. only showing the market cap of big companies or showing the decline of the european share of gdp but not the US one (which I assume was also falling), etc. Of course they made it to support the argument but to me it made their case much less valid.

East Asia industrializing does not somehow diminish Europe or the U.S., so measures like "global share of GDP" for the continent have nothing to do with the subject matter at hand, which is why Europe, with certainly a sufficiently large GDP, is not able to give birth to large corporations at the same rate as the U.S. Now we can argue whether being able to do this is a good thing or a bad thing. But for some reason c…

Does the work-life balance shifted towards life just mean that people work less in Europe? Can it contribute to a lesser global GDP share?

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#49

Post by passerby1 » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 1:51 AM UTC

erhk wrote: post #24

octodog wrote: post #12

This article doesn't do a good job of explaining why having many huge corporations is a boon. My guess is that many Europeans are perfectly fine with that.

Europe is extracting less value from its people than the U.S. is right now. Hardly a bad thing

Do you mind sharing sources for this? I'm genuinely interested in this topic.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#50

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 1:55 AM UTC

analog31 wrote: post #37

okareaman wrote: post #9

The opening paragraph: In 1984 a besuited 20-something American executive on a visit to France offered Europeans a few tips for corporate success. Entrepreneurs needed to be given a second chance if they failed and government bureaucrats made for lousy investors, he told a television interviewer. His advice was sage. But European companies ruled the global corporate roost alongside those of America and, occasionally,…

Yet they moved their taxable entity to Ireland, if I understand things correctly. I'm not sure what it means to say that they're an "American" company. And what do we actually gain from having companies nominally located in the US?

[deleted]