Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home • Hacker News Board

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#371

Post by orky56 » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 10:35 PM UTC

teawrecks wrote: post #307

belorn wrote: post #269

What are the things that motivates them, and what do they themselves want to do in life? I ask this because much of the undertone in the article and in this thread is about the failure of meeting the gender role expectations that are put on young men. Do they have a job and a car? Have they studied hard so they can get a good job in order to support a wife and kid? Culture in the last several decades have hammered do…

When I was probably 18 I asked a friend/coworker who was going to community college what they wanted to do after college and they just didn't know. I couldn't wrap my head around that. As far back as I can remember, I always had an answer when an adult asked me "what I want to be when I grow up". It wasn't always a coherent answer, but I always knew what stuff I found interesting. I don't know why it's different for…

It's a natural phenomenon. Potential for anything turns into realization that hard work and passion need to also be coupled with capability. It's debilitating in some ways but a coming of age for others. Those who can cross this chasm succeed and pivot accordingly.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#372

Post by ameister14 » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 10:35 PM UTC

Spooky23 wrote: post #154

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does effort mean in this context? I recall friends of mine, young women, who were having the hardest time finding a significant other were just demanding things of men that would have them selecting from a socioeconomic pool of the top 20% of the population, when they themselves were in the bottom 20%. It was my experience that young women in general were asking for too much when I was in my early 20s. They want…

It’s a viscous cycle for women. You don’t want to put too much of yourself out there, because crazy people, but not doing so ends up selling your body, which tends to attract a wider variety of men that don’t line up with your vision. So the two extremes are basically having sex with rando internet people and getting ultra-picky.

I'm sorry, but your comment cracked me up - viscous means a thick, sticky consistency, so a viscous cycle for women, well; you meant vicious circle, I assume

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#373

Post by Mediterraneo10 » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 10:36 PM UTC

berniemadoff69 wrote: post #334

UncleOxidant wrote: post #113

I've got two nephews aged 34 and 32 who still live at home and play video games all the time and rarely leave their rooms. Neither has ever had a job that lasted more than a month or so. Neither ever learned to drive even though they live in a town with little or no public transit. They haven't had any education beyond high school. They seem wholly unprepared to navigate life without their parents. It's a slow motion…

Would your tune be any different if they were 34, staying at home all day playing video games, but somehow earning half a million dollars a year doing some "gamer" Twitch/Patreon/YouTube/influencer streaming schtick? Or, better yet, playing video games all day, but magically manage to make obscene amounts of money "trading cryptocoins" . Would their lifestyles suddenly become acceptable to you, simply because they ar…

Being an influencer is an enormous amount of work. Sure, one could build a brand around games, but maintaining that brand is constant effort, even though the audience rarely sees it.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#374

Post by bluescrn » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 10:36 PM UTC

UncleOxidant wrote: post #234

JPKab wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think that video game addiction contributes to this kind of thing, or is the video game addiction a coping mechanism? I think video game addiction is an incredibly underreported and highly destructive phenomenon. I encounter (and had to fire a few days ago) lots of young men who don't appear to ever sleep, and are highly unproductive, unmotivated, and constantly distracted. The kid I had to fire (I call him ki…

Looks like you're being downvoted for suggesting video game addiction, but I think it's a huge part of it. I refer to it as 'digital drugs'. They're definitely addicted. Even on rare occasions when they show up to family gatherings they've got their face glued to their portable games and rarely speak. Of course, the parents played a part in enabling this. Their mom (my sis) will often suggest I buy them video games f…

Social media is the real digital crack.

That’s what most people are getting their hit of when they’re staring at a screen during a family gathering.

Games are the mild stuff in comparison (so long you steer clear of gambling and the ‘basically-gambling’ of loot box-based games)

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#375

Post by zabzonk » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 10:36 PM UTC

leetcrew wrote: post #319

zabzonk wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd rather just have a movie or narrative Open world games _are_ the equivalent of movies or narratives. think Skyrim, for example.

I think the point is you actually have to do stuff (often menial collect n of thing tasks) to advance the plot. once the suspension of disbelief is broken, you are no longer a valiant hero saving the kingdom. you are pushing buttons to complete arbitrary tasks that trigger the next cutscene. if you don't enjoy the core gameplay, why not just cut out the tedium and watch tv or a movie?

> why not just cut out the tedium and watch tv or a movie?

Well, I would dispute it is tedium (particularly compared with watching a modern Hollywood production, and particularly watching TV) - I like exploring and finding new and strange areas of the world.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#376

Post by neither_color » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 10:36 PM UTC

d_burfoot wrote: post #216

UncleOxidant wrote: post #113

I've got two nephews aged 34 and 32 who still live at home and play video games all the time and rarely leave their rooms. Neither has ever had a job that lasted more than a month or so. Neither ever learned to drive even though they live in a town with little or no public transit. They haven't had any education beyond high school. They seem wholly unprepared to navigate life without their parents. It's a slow motion…

> It's a slow motion tragedy. From an environmental perspective, this kind of minimalist lifestyle actually seems quite healthy. They don't drive, and I assume they don't fly or buy a lot of stuff, so their carbon and other resource footprint is small. They don't take up much extra space, so they reduce suburban sprawl and land required for housing. They probably won't have kids, which further reduces their environme…

That's a good one. "I decided to become a NEET in order to protect the environment" https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=NEET

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#377

Post by username90 » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 10:37 PM UTC

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #357

pcbro141 wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a related note, on mainstream TV/articles about declining marriage/birthrates in the West, it's common to see criticisms about modern Western men. How women can't find life partners because men aren't masculine enough anymore, don't want to grow up, don't get educated etc. But very rarely do you see any criticism or even questioning about modern Western women and what men want in a woman. Only what women want. The…

> Degrees don't make you marriage material. This gets said so much on fora with men who regard themselves as “redpilled”, but it makes no sense to me personally. As a bookish and arts-inclined person, so much of my worldview, the things that occupy my thoughts during the day, has been formed by the canon of literature, music, films. No woman would seem dating and marriage material to me if she weren’t similarly erudi…

You studying social subjects that almost only women study is the exception, you can afford to be picky about this. Lots of guys would love to have a woman who shares their interest, but since so few women study technical topics they have to settle with women they have little in common with. And at that point whether they studied some social topic or no topic and did other stuff isn't high up on the list.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#378

Post by balfirevic » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 10:38 PM UTC

throwaway803453 wrote: post #320

UncleOxidant wrote: post #113

I've got two nephews aged 34 and 32 who still live at home and play video games all the time and rarely leave their rooms. Neither has ever had a job that lasted more than a month or so. Neither ever learned to drive even though they live in a town with little or no public transit. They haven't had any education beyond high school. They seem wholly unprepared to navigate life without their parents. It's a slow motion…

My 45 year old sister is that way now and to a lesser extent my older brother was too. I lost _decades_ of sleep over their situation. Ultimately I didn't know anything when I left home at 18 and I figured it out. Other people can too. How long does it take to learn how to drive, open a checking account, cook, pay bill, etc. after all ? You can learn these things privately over the Internet so there's no longer a soc…

> How long does it take to learn how to drive

You're not wrong generally, but this one costs about $1000 where I live, which is close to average national monthly salary and approximately twice the minimum salary.

Not pocket change for someone who has trouble finding work (and many jobs require driver's license).

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#379

Post by akiselev » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 10:38 PM UTC

magicsmoke wrote: post #330

lotsofpulp wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are the things that motivates them, and what do they themselves want to do in life? I suspect quite a few people are looking at the odds of achieving various goals, and simply changing the goals. Such as owning a home in desirable areas, or having kids if you cannot afford a food school district or a job that allows you to be home for dinner. Or if you have experienced income instability, and you do not feel c…

> Or if you have experienced income instability, and you do not feel comfortable bringing children into the world. Yet poorer developing nations have higher birth rates than developed nations. Is it because they have lower expectations for what their children need to live a "good" life, that they just have more hope that things will work out somehow, or that they somehow don't care about these concerns?

They're largely subsistence farmers with high infant mortality and little to no automation which accounts for about 2 billion people. They need children to work the fields and it makes sense to have a lot of children when the labor turn around time is five years and up to a third of them will be dead by then.

The adults pay the "fixed costs" to keep the farm running so each additional child produces more in labor than they consume in resources. They're too poor to hire other adults for labor because they have their own "fixed costs" that are much higher than a child in the family.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#380

Post by username90 » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 10:39 PM UTC

8note wrote: post #339

magicsmoke wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or if you have experienced income instability, and you do not feel comfortable bringing children into the world. Yet poorer developing nations have higher birth rates than developed nations. Is it because they have lower expectations for what their children need to live a "good" life, that they just have more hope that things will work out somehow, or that they somehow don't care about these concerns?

Costs for raising a child is almost certainly lower, and they can likely work towards their top pay range before the age 25

So the country getting richer made us poorer?