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Legislation would unmask third-party sellers, but Amazon is fighting it

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Re: Legislation would unmask third-party sellers, but Amazon is fighting it

#41
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I setup a small online business, that was one of the first things I did. It doesn't cost much at all, and was very easy.

In my experience, a "real" address is needed somewhere. PO Boxes are fine for many things, but for process service, etc. the part of your state government that is responsible for business entities will want a real address.

A bus stop is a valid address for some things.

Re: Legislation would unmask third-party sellers, but Amazon is fighting it

#42
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you've never heard of competitive addressing, then. Instead of PO BOX 1234, Anytown, ST USA you use Street Address of Post Office, Unit # PO BOX Number, Anytown ST USA. In addition to giving you a "real" street address, it works for any services unable to otherwise deliver to a PO BOX like UPS, Fedex or DHL, because as long as they deliver during business hours, the post office will sign for your package. I use th…

the USPS consistently has the highest favorability rating of any government agency, at 91%: https://federalnewsnetwork.com/agency-oversight/2021/04/usps...

Impressive. Grew up when “Going postal” was a popular expression due to how often postal workers went on shooting rampages.

I recall efforts to reduce stress as apparently managers were tired of being murdered.

Maybe new phrase will be “Going Amazon”

Re: Legislation would unmask third-party sellers, but Amazon is fighting it

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t expect consumers to track down fake Ball lids and Apple chargers. I expect Ball and Apple to do that.

In civilized countries you have consumer watchdogs that deal with fraud and unsafe products so the consumer doesn't have to. The point of the law isn't to catch criminals, it's to prevent crime.

The watchdogs can't do anything because the sellers are essentially spam themselves. That is why Amazon has NNN thousand new "stores" opening everyday and why they have a billion variations of the exact same product. There is NO way that any sort of entity outside of Amazon can make heads or tails of that volume of data in order protect the consumer.

And Amazon is complicit in this just as much as Aliexpress and all the other platforms that are enabling product spam coming from China.

Re: Legislation would unmask third-party sellers, but Amazon is fighting it

#44
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in California they are liable in tort: https://www.natlawreview.com/article/another-court-gets-hove... > California’s Court of Appeal (Second Appellate District) determined that Amazon could be held strictly liable for injuries a consumer suffered from a defective hoverboard she bought from the retailer, even though Amazon neither manufactured nor sold the product. > The plaintiff in this latest case, Kisha…

So Wal Mart is liable for defective products in California too?

Yes, ever since the 1960s, actually. In fact, California was the first state[1] to adopt strict product liability. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Product_liability#Landmark_leg... Most U.S. states and many other countries have since adopted California's regime. So California courts extending their common law strict product liability doctrine to encompass Amazon's marketplace is quite a noteworthy precedent.

[1] And the first jurisdiction globally, I think.

Re: Legislation would unmask third-party sellers, but Amazon is fighting it

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, a "real" address is needed somewhere. PO Boxes are fine for many things, but for process service, etc. the part of your state government that is responsible for business entities will want a real address.

So you've never heard of competitive addressing, then. Instead of PO BOX 1234, Anytown, ST USA you use Street Address of Post Office, Unit # PO BOX Number, Anytown ST USA. In addition to giving you a "real" street address, it works for any services unable to otherwise deliver to a PO BOX like UPS, Fedex or DHL, because as long as they deliver during business hours, the post office will sign for your package. I use th…

> But yeah most likely a process server will leave the post office frustrated. I'm not sure if that's a bug or a feature. :-)

It’s probably one of those things that starts as a feature and quickly morphs into a really, really big bug.

Re: Legislation would unmask third-party sellers, but Amazon is fighting it

#46
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like the offloaded liability is just a technicality and is a poor lack of incentive for Amazon to do anything. Sure, the product was sold by a non-Amazon third party, but from the user perspective the defective product was purchased on Amazon. The company can deflect blame to the marketplace sellers all they want, but it's still Amazon's reputation that receives the most lasting damage.

I am wondering if Amazon is immune to reputational damage though. People have been complaining about counterfeit and defective products from Amazon for about 5 years now, and it doesn't seem to have had significant effect on market share. I've been disentangling my purchasing habits from Amazon, but I don't know too many other people who are.

Same here. It isn't easy. I dropped Prime a couple years ago. I think I placed five total orders last year, pandemic and all.

Re: Legislation would unmask third-party sellers, but Amazon is fighting it

#47
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you've never heard of competitive addressing, then. Instead of PO BOX 1234, Anytown, ST USA you use Street Address of Post Office, Unit # PO BOX Number, Anytown ST USA. In addition to giving you a "real" street address, it works for any services unable to otherwise deliver to a PO BOX like UPS, Fedex or DHL, because as long as they deliver during business hours, the post office will sign for your package. I use th…

The only reason people on HN have hate for the post office is they are influenced by capitalists who want another industry to “disrupt.” American oligarchs have been declaring war on public services since the New Deal, and over time American workers have sadly been propagandized to buy into it. As a result, the U.S. Post Office is not what it used to be (it used to offer banking services!!!) but it’s still one of the…

Replace "disrupt" with "replace with an improved version" and you have accurately characterized my view.

The USPS does an absolutely terrible job, by objective measure. Many of their locations are significantly understaffed, with 30-60 minute waits for basic services (for paying customers!). Rude, unhelpful employees are the norm.

Why should package and letter delivery be a public service? Their approach is not working.

Re: Legislation would unmask third-party sellers, but Amazon is fighting it

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, a "real" address is needed somewhere. PO Boxes are fine for many things, but for process service, etc. the part of your state government that is responsible for business entities will want a real address.

So you've never heard of competitive addressing, then. Instead of PO BOX 1234, Anytown, ST USA you use Street Address of Post Office, Unit # PO BOX Number, Anytown ST USA. In addition to giving you a "real" street address, it works for any services unable to otherwise deliver to a PO BOX like UPS, Fedex or DHL, because as long as they deliver during business hours, the post office will sign for your package. I use th…

The part of this that is news to me (I have long known about using the street address of the post office with #BOXNUMBER, and used this to get driver's licenses in the past) is that they will now accept UPS/FedEx shipments to a PO box when addressed in this manner.

For a long time, the USPS would simply refuse to accept deliveries from competitors, which always struck me as the utmost in anticompetitive, non-interoperable-by-design bullshit. I'm glad to hear they have stopped.

Re: Legislation would unmask third-party sellers, but Amazon is fighting it

#49
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Wal Mart is liable for defective products in California too?

Yes, ever since the 1960s, actually. In fact, California was the first state[1] to adopt strict product liability. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Product_liability#Landmark_leg... Most U.S. states and many other countries have since adopted California's regime. So California courts extending their common law strict product liability doctrine to encompass Amazon's marketplace is quite a noteworthy precedent. [1] An…

Sounds like a big risk reselling anything with any potential to go wrong in California, or at least insurance premiums will be very high.

Re: Legislation would unmask third-party sellers, but Amazon is fighting it

#50
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the USPS consistently has the highest favorability rating of any government agency, at 91%: https://federalnewsnetwork.com/agency-oversight/2021/04/usps...

Impressive. Grew up when “Going postal” was a popular expression due to how often postal workers went on shooting rampages. I recall efforts to reduce stress as apparently managers were tired of being murdered. Maybe new phrase will be “Going Amazon”

The reason for that was that the US government tried to guarantee jobs for veterans. The one government task that could use relatively uneducated but fit people no matter where they happened to live was postal delivery. So a lot of veterans with PTSD and weapons training wound up as postal delivery workers.

Veterans with PTSD and weapons training sometimes flip out and shoot people.

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