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Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

nltimes.nl

191–200 of 211 posts

Re: Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

#191
post #136
post #84

> "Cryptocurrencies are essentially neither money nor a financial product, but an example of what Nobel laureate Robert Shiller calls a 'contagious narrative': a contagious story in which people believe because other people believe in it." Which is exactly what money is, to begin with.

Physical money has value because we have an economy. If you have a USD, you can come to the US and spend that dollar. Bitcoin doesn't have an economy, it is literally a meme. The only thing you can do with it is trade it for real money. The value of USD is based on the US economy. The value of Bitcoin is based on people's perception of the value of Bitcoin.

If all programmers decide to be paid in crypto, and you need a programmer, the crypto has the same value as USD ("backed by programmers") If everyone in your economy decides to be paid in crypto, USD will find itself in a very bad position.

Your economy is now driven by USD, but it's not a law in any way.

Re: Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

#192
post #84

> "Cryptocurrencies are essentially neither money nor a financial product, but an example of what Nobel laureate Robert Shiller calls a 'contagious narrative': a contagious story in which people believe because other people believe in it." Which is exactly what money is, to begin with.

Real life currency also has the backing of the economy they represent. That's why USD is "strong" and Zimbabwean dollars were "weak." Crypto has nothing. It's just environmental destruction and/or pump and dump schemes.

When people decide to use crypto instead of USD, your economy is not backed by USD anymore.

Re: Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

#193
post #187
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My core point is that what the central bank is worried about is societal control of a very homogeneous society. Even if currently, a democratic one. The least thing he is worried about is investors as he claimed. However we can talk a little bit both about overall Dutch TOTAL income burden plus spent on medical care: Concerning your comment on taxation, I claimed the overall tax burden, is massive not that the income…

I see you have moved the goalposts and have not bothered to actually provide any citations for the numbers from your original posted. Your own link indicates that Netherlands taxes are only slightly above average for OECD countries given their GDP. This would indicate that your original claims were false. The reason why health care costs are lower is a different topic. Your original claim about relative healthcare co…

And you are sticking to tables of income and tax rates and claiming that income tax is 51% not 80 or 85%. At the same you decide to ignore my claim was the overall earning you do over you life will be taken away by the state. Surely you can understand the concept of overall tax burden.

Although I am simplifying here and not making payroll salary calculation you certainly understand the example like this one.

You earn 4000 EUR salary.A very good manager level salary in the Netherlands. Before you get your salary on your hands the state, takes you 51% so you receive 1960 EUR on hands. ( This example is not 100% correct as it is a progressive tax, but lets run with it for the sake of example)

From these 1960 EUR you will pay, for a monthly health insurance for a family of three 300 to 350 EUR ( typical) so you are left with 1610 EUR. If you have a modest sized car you are paying 133 EUR per month on average per road tax and overall 80 EUR per month on car insurance. For every kilometer that you drive you are paying a tax on your fuel that is 70 to 80% of your fuel cost as road tax. Remember road maintenance and all those state benefits were supposed to be paid from the 51% of you already provided to the state.

Assuming no kilometres driven,while your car sits idle,you are now down to 1397 EUR. Now despite the fact that you already paid to the state 51% they want nothing to do with your water, electricity, garbage collection. For that your local taxes will take you on average another 150 EUR per month, depending on were you live so you are now down to 1247 EUR. We are not done yet because, do you have a dog ? You have to pay tax on it: https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/bldcontentnl/...

Note from these 1247 EUR will be paying VAT at 21% to live. Do you need an Internet connection and some studies for improvement ? Take another 100 EUR per month to out you at 1100 EUR. If you save any money you will have to pay tax on that. Its called the "Taxation on income from savings and investments" In the Netherlands is based on the assumption that people will have a certain taxable return on their net capital. The actual level of return (for example interest, dividend, capital gains or losses) is NOT relevant. No concern if the bank is ( at it is the case at the moment) providing you with a negative interest rate.

If from the 500 to 600 EUR you will be left to live, you somewhow are able to accumulate any assets dont worry the state will take you remaining in inherithance tax. Here the rates for 2021: https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/nl/erfbelasti...

Believe or no, there are are other taxes, but now I got tired of writing and I want reiterate my point. There is a Massive overall tax burden of the lifetime of a citizen and frankly the only reason people do not protest is, as I stated that you are either on the side of the receiving state benefits sad misery or middle class enjoying your stated super "high quality of life.". It is certainly much better than undeveloped countries but that is also another discussion and also moving the goal posts...Overall tax burden is my concern here.

Re: Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

#194
post #184
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah so within the US it wouldn't really matter. On a global scale it would be nice to have a form of money that is not dependent on the whims of politicians.

That’s a nice way to describe anti money laundering and tax compliance laws. Easier money transfers for the law abiding are a real problem to be solved (and new companies are making it much easier!) but widespread evasion of laws isn’t a great approach.

If it helps any...

With the new KYC stuff, I can't get fiat out of my cryptos till after they sequence my DNA..

Seriously, its ridiculous.. Neither my bank, credit, or brokerage accounts required jumping thru so many hoops.

Re: Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money is a contagious story plus guns. I need to acquire USD to pay my tax bill, otherwise men with guns come and take away my house and put me in jail. That establishes a baseline value for USD.

If none of the services and goods trade in USD, the goverment will soon collect taxes in something else than USD

The people selling the goods and services need to pay taxes too, so they will have to trade in USD.

Re: Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

#196
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "nobody visibly cared, then some people cared more loudly, then everyone cared" pattern exists in essentially everything. Climate change, opioid addiction, police murders, genocide in China, microplastics, childhood obesity, #metoo, whatever other thing. That's just how society works. There are a billion different things happening every day, at any given moment some are gaining attention and some are losing atten…

The reason this pattern is so common is that most people take their cues for what to care about from the media, and the media take their cues from a presumably small and difficult-to-identify group of thought leaders (some combination of editors, PR firms and people with extremely respectable positions). It is basically a self organising system around a very small pool of original thoughts. It is pretty remarkable ho…

That describes what I think about current public discourse exactly. I wonder if that's how it's always been with human societies?

Re: Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

#197
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t try to stop completely at each stop sign, that’s impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth... there are no stop signs.

Unless you're a cyclist (Idaho Stops are good!) you should always make a full and complete stop at a stop sign. You're going to kill a pedestrian one of these days.

Don’t try to avoid pedestrians, that’s impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth... there are no pedestrians.

Re: Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If none of the services and goods trade in USD, the goverment will soon collect taxes in something else than USD

The people selling the goods and services need to pay taxes too, so they will have to trade in USD.

No, they just need to exchange it at the very end.

Re: Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like the stop sign bubble. Those stop signs dont actually stop cars, they just work because of the contagious narrative

Come to Florida where all road signs are merely suggestions /s. However, this is the strongest argument I've seen for why money is money, crypto is crypto, stop signs stop cars, and "DO NOT CROSS" keeps people out.

Traffic Control Protocol is known to be a best-effort.

Re: Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

#200
post #84

> "Cryptocurrencies are essentially neither money nor a financial product, but an example of what Nobel laureate Robert Shiller calls a 'contagious narrative': a contagious story in which people believe because other people believe in it." Which is exactly what money is, to begin with.

Cryptos are not even a single narrative, if I wanted to be really negative, I'd say it's more like a tumor. A wild bunch of slightly similar yet always evolving narratives wrap in thin sheet of fad.

95% of it is superstition.

It's a really strange bridge of mainstream / tech and finance, where very few people have a serious clue.

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