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Software is eating the car

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Re: Software is eating the car

#521

Post by Koshkin »

nerd_light wrote: post #128
Koshkin wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If electric cars ever become widespread I have a strong suspicion that soon enough after that we will be able to build electric cars from kits, cheap and with no frills. We are on a cusp of a new technological revolution.

May I ask why you think that? (Sincere question, not meant to be snarky). Even assuming electric car assembly is simpler than an ICE powered car, there are still a lot of large, heavy, and expensive components. And that's setting aside all the regulations around it being a "street legal" vehicle, which can place odd constraints and vary from location to location. I could see there being ways to build your own, just a…

The overall mechanics of an electric car is (or can be made, if it's not a conversion) so much simpler; the battery is, in fact, modular, each piece weighing about the same as or less than a regular car battery. I can easily imagine a market for consumer EVs assembled not by huge plants but rather by small local shops as well as enthusiasts. The age of the large brands dominating is coming to an end...

Re: Software is eating the car

#522

Post by NikolaNovak »

Chris_Newton wrote: post #404
NikolaNovak wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worse, in the 2015 Toyota and 2019 Honda that we now have - if one of us listened to heavy metal on volume 30; and the other one is more of a mellow pop on volume15; they'll have to wait until the car turns on, boots, and timeouts the warning/license messages, before car will accept the volume down / turn radio off input and kill the cacophone. UN acceptable. And yet now the norm. I'll do you one better - I'm hanging…

I also hang on to an older car for much the same reasons. Every now and then I’ve had a courtesy car from a garage while mine was in for a service, typically something very recent. I almost invariably dislike them. You could argue that’s because of familiarity. Obviously I like a lot about my car or I wouldn’t have kept it for this long! But truly, it’s not that I don’t think there’s room for improvement on my old ca…

Familiarity may be a factor, but not a sole one.

The RAV4 we had for 4 years now - I'm thoroughly familiar with the UI, and parts of it are still completely non-sensible.

Like yourself, before COVID I traveled and rented cars frequently; there are some UI choices that are inherently poor or against my priorities/workflows and they'll never be right. I could list them, but now we'd be into rant territory... :-/

Re: Software is eating the car

#523

Post by Arrath »

mavhc wrote: post #517
randcraw wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding labor saving devices always increases the price you pay for a product. I LIKE labor saving features, just so long as they don't get in my way or tell me what to do. I just want a car to ENABLE me in intuitive ways and that don't go obsolete before the tires need replacing.

Knobs and sliders and buttons all cost money to create, wire in, fix. 1 touchscreen is cheaper.

I'll happily take slightly more expensive knobs, sliders and buttons over a touchscreen.

I know exactly where, e.g. my fan speed knob is and I can reach for it confidently. Or I can take my eyes of the road so I'm not blindly groping around the touchscreen to find the increase/decrease button, assuming its even on the right screen and I don't need to go through several menus to find it. Cost doesn't enter my mind in this scenario.

Re: Software is eating the car

#524

Post by Arrath »

Jtsummers wrote: post #145
arpyzo wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I own a 2014 Subaru Impreza and my brother in-law a 2017. I've driven both extensively. Sometime during those years, Subaru switched from knobs and levers to a touchscreen and the controls are so much worse! 1. The controls on the 2014 are obvious, easy to find, and my choices are readily apparent. In the 2017 I have to search for them and often guess their meanings. If I'm actively driving, I just give up because it…

Re (3): It's still an issue in the 2018 Impreza. I've gotten used to it now, but it's still frustrating. Especially if I ended the drive with a phone call. On phone calls I have to really crank up the volume (nearly max) whereas for music and other things I have it very low (10-15? The numbers mean nothing to me, not loud). So when I turn it on after a call I get blasted by NPR for about 5-10 seconds before the audio…

I have a problem like this in my 2018 Dodge! The bluetooth takes a wildly variable amount of time to connect when starting the car, and the bluetooth doesn't have an input gain option, like aux input does.

This means I need to turn the volume up a ways to hear anything over bluetooth. This also means that between starting the car and bluetooth connecting I'm getting blasted by some random radio station at increased volume.

Re: Software is eating the car

#525

Post by jacquesm »

MrGilbert wrote: post #465
jacquesm wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that you don't know ahead of time when 'sometimes' is which is worse than nothing.

Not that I'm defending the technology in this case, but I notice that some people still believe it's unnecessary to read the user's manual of a modern car. Maybe this mindset has to change.

The user interface of a car was standardized 100 years ago. If you need to read the manual of a car to decide which crap feature to disable seven menu layers deep in a configuration menu - assuming that the function to disable it even exists - then that vehicle should come with a mandatory examination before you can drive it and should not be allowed to be used for rental / short lease fleets.

Your typical manufacturer makes a very large fraction of their income from exactly those two applications.

If there is a mindset that has to change then it is that sticking something somewhere in a manual is sufficient disclaimer to be able to claim 'user error' in case of trouble.

Re: Software is eating the car

#526

Post by IgorPartola »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #509
IgorPartola wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For anyone wondering what progress in terms of safety looks like, give this 77 second video a view: https://youtu.be/xtxd27jlZ_g

God I hate that video so much. It is right up there with the Top Gear Hilux episode when it comes to entertainment being peddled as scientific experiment by people who find it convenient to the point they are trying to make to do so (not saying you did that, just that tons of people do). It was a promotional video designed to highlight progress. It does that just fine. But every two bit tom dick and harry seems to th…

I get what you are saying but look at what happened to the 60s car here. Seatbelts don’t do anything for you if the other car is suddenly parked in your pelvis. None of the hard parts seem to reach at least the torso of the dummy in the modern car while in the 60s car the dummy ends up being pushed virtually into the back seat. Sure the seatbelt would have held it in the seat but it that does nothing as the bent door and the grill of the modern car crushed it’s lungs and liver areas. The airbag here wouldn’t have saved the dummy either of course. The thing that would have is a better crumple zone.

Re: Software is eating the car

#527

Post by IgorPartola »

PhantomGremlin wrote: post #481
IgorPartola wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For anyone wondering what progress in terms of safety looks like, give this 77 second video a view: https://youtu.be/xtxd27jlZ_g

This is a great video that everyone should watch. But part of the problem with the 50 y/o car may be that the steel has rusted (based on the rust-colored cloud of particles). That may be why the older car just disintegrates. OTOH the weakening of the steel because of rust creates a de-facto "crumple zone"? A minor improvement? :) Older cars were much too rigid and the body didn't absorb much energy. It was all transm…

The nice thing about those cars is that you can actually replace things like suspension and brake systems with modern equivalents relatively easily. It’s not like swapping in an F-150 brake system into a Corolla.

As far as rust, I’m sure you can find some rust free cars in AZ or CA.

Re: Software is eating the car

#528

Post by jpindar »

psychlops wrote: post #409
Koshkin wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If electric cars ever become widespread I have a strong suspicion that soon enough after that we will be able to build electric cars from kits, cheap and with no frills. We are on a cusp of a new technological revolution.

The first collisions of speeding custom modified cars will put an end to any individual innovation there.

There have been collisions of speeding custom modified cars since there have been cars. Why would electric ones be any different?

Re: Software is eating the car

#529

Post by jpindar »

e40 wrote: post #38
yardie wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EVs are quite simply and there has been a small, but growing base of users using AC induction motors on sailboats. I imagine you're going to need a pre-OBDII car and some mechanical skills and convert it to electric drive. After that you'll have a car that has half the range of a modern EV do to weight optimization.

Why pre-OBDII?

Yeah, OBDII is great and has nothing to do with the UI, privacy etc. issues people are trying to avoid.

Re: Software is eating the car

#530

Post by jonplackett »

petepete wrote: post #477
jonplackett wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't used one for a while so this may have been fixed. But I've never seen a DSLR with the same type of touch manual controls as an old SLR. Someone correct me if I'm wrong and tell me where to buy one!

I believe you want a Nikon DF or (and yeah, I know they're not DSLRs) any Fujifilm X series. https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/product/dslr-came...

$2,749.95

Who knew a few physical dials would be so expensive...

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