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Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

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Re: Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

#71

Post by demosito666 »

mortehu wrote: post #15
kuroguro wrote: post #6

There's plenty of valid criticisms against crypto, I feel like they've picked some of the weakest ones. > cryptocurrencies are used because people think they will one day replace traditional money Maybe a tiny minority, sounds like a strawman. > a contagious story in which people believe because other people believe in it Isn't fiat the same? Money only has value because people believe it has value / will have value…

Fiat is slightly different in that the government can guarantee a certain level of demand for it by requiring taxes to be paid in it. If you you don't like jail and have a tax liability in US, you can't think dollars are worthless.

This guarantee surely helped quite a bit in Zimbabwe, Venezuela and hundreds more similar cases. /s

Re: Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

#72

Post by crispyambulance »

wyager wrote: post #59
injidup wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When normal money has failed good luck finding a wall charger to get into your Bitcoin wallet. Or more precisely the thing that makes electricity and computer hardware cheap and which is a prerequisite for crypto is a functional economic system. It is unlikely that a functional economic system will stay a whilst there is at the same time a collapse in fiat and a subsequent rise in crypto. It feels like wishful thinki…

Currency collapses happen all the time without bringing down the electrical grid/internet.

… and crypto fluctuates wildly all the time, with the electricity on for no reason whatsoever other than random whims of speculative investors.

Re: Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

#73

Post by X6S1x6Okd1st »

hencq wrote: post #61
wyager wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fiat is backed by weapons. This is one of the most hilarious misunderstandings of how monetization works. Is someone from the army going to come shoot me if I charge too many USD for a hamburger?

No, but someone from the police will show up if you don't pay your taxes in USD.

Also really important, police will show up if you are counterfeiting USD. One of the neat things about cryptocurrency is that the supply is not protected by threat of force unlike fiat.

Re: Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

#74

Post by BitwiseFool »

Zachsa999 wrote: post #39
ionwake wrote: post #2

Nobel laureate Robert Shiller calls bitcoin a 'contagious narrative' Anyone else find articles like these hard to take seriously?

I usually stop reading when people start throwing around "big" names in an argumentativw essay. This time I disagreed so heartily that I finished reading. Are you convincing me of a nobel laureates opinion, or are you convincing me that bitcoin is bad for The dutch economy. I think he's just an integrated buerocrat trying to make his way in the world. The comments said enough about this.

I feel the same way every time someone references Paul Krugman. The man is so often wrong and yet still revered by the press because he once won a "Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences", which isn't even an actual Nobel Prize.

Re: Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

#75

Post by bko »

mortehu wrote: post #15
kuroguro wrote: post #6

There's plenty of valid criticisms against crypto, I feel like they've picked some of the weakest ones. > cryptocurrencies are used because people think they will one day replace traditional money Maybe a tiny minority, sounds like a strawman. > a contagious story in which people believe because other people believe in it Isn't fiat the same? Money only has value because people believe it has value / will have value…

Fiat is slightly different in that the government can guarantee a certain level of demand for it by requiring taxes to be paid in it. If you you don't like jail and have a tax liability in US, you can't think dollars are worthless.

> Fiat is slightly different in that the government can guarantee a certain level of demand for it by requiring taxes to be paid in it

Until they switch currencies. For instance Brazil did this

> The cruzeiro (Portuguese pronunciation: [kɾuˈzejɾu]) was the currency of Brazil from 1942 to 1986 (two distinct currencies) and again between 1990 and 1993. In August 1993 it was replaced by the short-lived Cruzeiro Real, itself replaced less than a year aftwards by the Real.

India also demonitized a certain denomination of their currency

> On 8 November 2016, the Government of India announced the demonetisation of all ₹500 and ₹1,000 banknotes of the Mahatma Gandhi Series. It also announced the issuance of new ₹500 and ₹2,000 banknotes in exchange for the demonetised banknotes.

Re: Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

#76

Post by ulzeraj »

wickoff wrote: post #26
ArkanExplorer wrote: post #20

Bans are totally justified. They will achieve two major outcomes: 1. Tank the price, thus freeing up energy and advanced manufactured goods (which are in shortages right now) for proper productive use. 2. Significantly lessen the instances of Ransomware, since companies will have no legal mechanism to actually pay. Whether the coins continue to exist informally and are traded in some kind of primitive barter system i…

As long as we're banning things we should also ban all videogames, they are too addictive. There is nothing more precious than time and it can be spent much more productively. And alcohol for obvious reasons.

Thats another industry that uses lots of energy for something with no tangible value.

Will the same people asking to ban cryptocurrencies be content with it or will they move towards banning other unapproved energy consumption activities?

Re: Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

#77

Post by bko »

jokethrowaway wrote: post #22
kuroguro wrote: post #6

There's plenty of valid criticisms against crypto, I feel like they've picked some of the weakest ones. > cryptocurrencies are used because people think they will one day replace traditional money Maybe a tiny minority, sounds like a strawman. > a contagious story in which people believe because other people believe in it Isn't fiat the same? Money only has value because people believe it has value / will have value…

Fiat is backed by weapons. The same weapons that defend your house from other countries and force you to give up half your salary. My main criticism to cryptocurrencies is that they're mostly unbacked. The ones that are backed by Fiat have similar problems to Fiat currency (why would I need that?), the ones that are backed by physical assets are much more interesting - but they don't seem to be the mainstream ones, p…

> Fiat is backed by weapons.

What does this mean? It's the currency of a country that has weapons. If someone steals my USD, will US use their weapons to get it back for me? If the value of their currency drops substantially, will they go to war with some unknown power that's causing this drop and reverse the change? Countries also change currencies, often during times of inflation.

This is an effectively meaningless statement

Re: Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

#78

Post by roenxi »

gifwithaj wrote: post #53
elzbardico wrote: post #41

It makes a lot of sense for a country that has significant portions of its territory below sea level. But, I wonder. For years I was absolutely baffled by how the world decided to ignore crypto environmental footprint. Then, out of the blue, a few months ago, it looks like EVERYBODY is talking about it. Then, the G-7 wants to impose the beginning of a global tax regime upon the developed nations (that's what it is ba…

The "nobody visibly cared, then some people cared more loudly, then everyone cared" pattern exists in essentially everything. Climate change, opioid addiction, police murders, genocide in China, microplastics, childhood obesity, #metoo, whatever other thing. That's just how society works. There are a billion different things happening every day, at any given moment some are gaining attention and some are losing atten…

The reason this pattern is so common is that most people take their cues for what to care about from the media, and the media take their cues from a presumably small and difficult-to-identify group of thought leaders (some combination of editors, PR firms and people with extremely respectable positions).

It is basically a self organising system around a very small pool of original thoughts. It is pretty remarkable how stuff can completely slip the general discourse because it never catches on in the in-group.

Re: Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

#79

Post by rantwasp »

injidup wrote: post #55
yunohn wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe a tiny minority Wait, what? That’s like the main reason people give when pumping it - “Bitcoin will replace fiat and it’s a good hedge against normal money.”

When normal money has failed good luck finding a wall charger to get into your Bitcoin wallet. Or more precisely the thing that makes electricity and computer hardware cheap and which is a prerequisite for crypto is a functional economic system. It is unlikely that a functional economic system will stay a whilst there is at the same time a collapse in fiat and a subsequent rise in crypto. It feels like wishful thinki…

you’re thinking of “normal money” failing as a on/off switch. Things are going degrade over time and there needs to be mass adoption if crypto is going to replace fiat currency.

so in reality I think a transition to crypto is possible/likely if it’s indeed a transition and the incentives to do so will be aligned with what the people in power want.

Re: Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

#80

Post by crispyambulance »

yunohn wrote: post #60
injidup wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When normal money has failed good luck finding a wall charger to get into your Bitcoin wallet. Or more precisely the thing that makes electricity and computer hardware cheap and which is a prerequisite for crypto is a functional economic system. It is unlikely that a functional economic system will stay a whilst there is at the same time a collapse in fiat and a subsequent rise in crypto. It feels like wishful thinki…

This is exactly what I don’t understand about the doomsday crowd. How exactly do they plan on using crypto amidst worldwide pandemonium?

They think they’ll be able to exchange their funny money for real money, just in time, and stash it in their bug-out bags along with bullets and beef jerky.
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