Live data from Hacker News

Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

nltimes.nl

11–20 of 211 posts

Re: Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

#11
post #7

>"Cryptocurrencies are essentially neither money nor a financial product, but an example of what Nobel laureate Robert Shiller calls a 'contagious narrative': a contagious story in which people believe because other people believe in it." How is this different from money or the financial markets? Why do those continue to exist if not for the belief we collectively have in them? And why is that only a problem for bitc…

> How is this different from money or the financial markets?

A big difference is that the sovereign requires you to pay taxes in a given currency at the threat of punishment. So long as everyone needs to pay the taxman, the currency that the tax man accepts is gonna have at least some value.

Re: Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

#12
post #7

>"Cryptocurrencies are essentially neither money nor a financial product, but an example of what Nobel laureate Robert Shiller calls a 'contagious narrative': a contagious story in which people believe because other people believe in it." How is this different from money or the financial markets? Why do those continue to exist if not for the belief we collectively have in them? And why is that only a problem for bitc…

Because the Netherlands make significant money from funnelling money to their tax havens. If people can do it themselves with bitcoin, how are these tax-pros supposed to live? /s

Re: Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

#13
post #3
post #2

Nobel laureate Robert Shiller calls bitcoin a 'contagious narrative' Anyone else find articles like these hard to take seriously?

> Nobel laureate... Maybe we should start taking reputable people like this more seriously.

Depends. Is Shiller recommending to buy vitamin C?

Re: Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

#15
post #6

There's plenty of valid criticisms against crypto, I feel like they've picked some of the weakest ones. > cryptocurrencies are used because people think they will one day replace traditional money Maybe a tiny minority, sounds like a strawman. > a contagious story in which people believe because other people believe in it Isn't fiat the same? Money only has value because people believe it has value / will have value…

Fiat is slightly different in that the government can guarantee a certain level of demand for it by requiring taxes to be paid in it. If you you don't like jail and have a tax liability in US, you can't think dollars are worthless.

Re: Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

#16
post #6

There's plenty of valid criticisms against crypto, I feel like they've picked some of the weakest ones. > cryptocurrencies are used because people think they will one day replace traditional money Maybe a tiny minority, sounds like a strawman. > a contagious story in which people believe because other people believe in it Isn't fiat the same? Money only has value because people believe it has value / will have value…

Fiat is valuable because of a never ending torrent of positive exposure https://Bitcoin.isNot.Money/

Re: Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

#17
So wait ... this guy wants 2 things:

1) banning bitcoin

2) massive money injections into Dutch companies, Dutch government, and "in between" (ie. private companies in e.g. healthcare that effectively work exclusively for government). He has an article on how "basically every last Dutch political party wants a massive increase in spending" ( https://www.cpb.nl/column-een-ruk-aan-het-stuur )

And with Bitcoin his main argument is that it may present the government with even more debt (no explanation as to why a crash in Bitcoin would increase the Dutch government's debt burden)

However the last of his problems with Bitcoin is very out of step with the other ones: "financial instability". He is afraid, in other words, of the effect of Bitcoin's existence on the currencies he (helps) control. NOT of it's effect on people (it would be very weird of the "government bank" (that's what CPB is) to care about the effect of anything on people. That is very much not his job).

So the obvious explanation for this combination of behaviors is simple: he wants to use Dutch (or European) funds that aren't his (say pension funds, perhaps even savings accounts) for government policy, and is afraid of Bitcoin providing a way out of his measures. He is afraid of a massive RISE in Bitcoin, not a drop. He wants to safeguard his ability to take extreme measures (like confiscating things) to make massive government spending possible. That must mean concrete plans exist.

So I would say this guy is on the philosophical side of the Bitcoin "lunatics". He's just on the other side of the battle, and afraid of the effect on his own policies. He is afraid of the protection that Bitcoin offers.

Re: Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

#19
post #6

There's plenty of valid criticisms against crypto, I feel like they've picked some of the weakest ones. > cryptocurrencies are used because people think they will one day replace traditional money Maybe a tiny minority, sounds like a strawman. > a contagious story in which people believe because other people believe in it Isn't fiat the same? Money only has value because people believe it has value / will have value…

> Maybe a tiny minority

Wait, what? That’s like the main reason people give when pumping it - “Bitcoin will replace fiat and it’s a good hedge against normal money.”

Re: Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

#20
Bans are totally justified. They will achieve two major outcomes:

1. Tank the price, thus freeing up energy and advanced manufactured goods (which are in shortages right now) for proper productive use.

2. Significantly lessen the instances of Ransomware, since companies will have no legal mechanism to actually pay.

Whether the coins continue to exist informally and are traded in some kind of primitive barter system is irrelevant.

Post reply on HN