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German environmental groups file objection against Tesla gigafactory permit

reuters.com

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Re: German environmental groups file objection against Tesla gigafactory permit

#61

Post by _Microft »

durnygbur wrote: post #58
_Microft wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to keep your country beautiful, you might want to consider enforcing some rules so that it stays like that. That's exactly what German groups are trying here. You do not get nice countries by lowering the standards there.

Just south of this manufactury in Lausitz there are the largest open-pit mines of brown coal in Europe. Somehow this is not a problem, or vast open-pit mines are an asset to the countryside and the environment?

These are huge problems, not just there but also in western Germany, and they are seeing opposition as well. As far as I am concerned, I would have shut down coal plants and coal mines ages ago (while keeping nuclear power plants running longer instead).

Re: German environmental groups file objection against Tesla gigafactory permit

#62

Post by imtringued »

durnygbur wrote: post #30

Good luck setting up in Germany a manufactury alternative to Daimler, BMW, Audi, or VW. It's literally a threat to their existence and they'll react accordingly. Sometimes it shows how disconnected Americans are from the local European realities. Even if Tesla will succeed they'll have to fly workers from Ukraine, Branderburg is a demographical desert. Czechia, Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, and Romania are desperate to…

It actually isn't a threat to their existence if German car makers respond early enough. It's a bigger threat to their existence if there is nobody to wake them up before they die.

Re: German environmental groups file objection against Tesla gigafactory permit

#63

Post by wait_a_minute »

_Microft wrote: post #54
wait_a_minute wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk should just build the plant in Romania instead. Beautiful country, and we will accept the business and tax revenue with open arms ;)

If you want to keep your country beautiful, you might want to consider enforcing some rules so that it stays like that. That's exactly what German groups are trying here. You do not get nice countries by lowering the standards there.

Ahhh yes, the country where those automotive groups kept the world and their country pristine and pure by… checks notes intentionally lying about emissions in their vehicles that are sold all over the place!

Re: German environmental groups file objection against Tesla gigafactory permit

#64

Post by durnygbur »

imtringued wrote: post #62
durnygbur wrote: post #30

Good luck setting up in Germany a manufactury alternative to Daimler, BMW, Audi, or VW. It's literally a threat to their existence and they'll react accordingly. Sometimes it shows how disconnected Americans are from the local European realities. Even if Tesla will succeed they'll have to fly workers from Ukraine, Branderburg is a demographical desert. Czechia, Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, and Romania are desperate to…

It actually isn't a threat to their existence if German car makers respond early enough. It's a bigger threat to their existence if there is nobody to wake them up before they die.

If this means less Audi/BMW/Mercedes cars blinding me with their headlights and tailing 2m behind me, let them sleep.

Re: German environmental groups file objection against Tesla gigafactory permit

#65

Post by _Microft »

wait_a_minute wrote: post #63
_Microft wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to keep your country beautiful, you might want to consider enforcing some rules so that it stays like that. That's exactly what German groups are trying here. You do not get nice countries by lowering the standards there.

Ahhh yes, the country where those automotive groups kept the world and their country pristine and pure by… checks notes intentionally lying about emissions in their vehicles that are sold all over the place!

These manufacturers flouted the rules and were eventually caught as well. If we hadn't had the rules, they could have gone on with that unopposed, so this is basically making my point?

Re: German environmental groups file objection against Tesla gigafactory permit

#66

Post by imtringued »

WanderPanda wrote: post #25

From first hand experience I know that these „environmental“ groups are also big in blocking smaller projects like wind turbines. In the end they are ultra conservative but can paint themselves in a modern, green way

Some of them are CDU members that want to stop the Energiewende.

They usually come up with empty claims that make no sense. For example, there was a commercial forest for paper/cardboard production and it would have to be chopped early to make room for the Tesla plant. Suddenly people started fighting to protect a privately owned commercial forest that was nothing but a monoculture of the same tree species.

Of course if the complaint is about chemical waste leaking from a factory that's serious and should be addressed but all the bullshit claims make it harder to actually protect the environment.

Re: German environmental groups file objection against Tesla gigafactory permit

#67

Post by wait_a_minute »

_Microft wrote: post #65
wait_a_minute wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahhh yes, the country where those automotive groups kept the world and their country pristine and pure by… checks notes intentionally lying about emissions in their vehicles that are sold all over the place!

These manufacturers flouted the rules and were eventually caught as well. If we hadn't had the rules, they could have gone on with that unopposed, so this is basically making my point?

They got away with it for a long time and at a huge scale and barely got a slap on the wrist. Your point is not proven. If anything it is harmed by this reality because it suggests environmental concerns are not actually that high up on Germany’s priorities and it seems like a concern-troll for them to cite environmental concerns now lol. They’re afraid of American muscle challenging their brands.

Anyway, a Gigafactory in Romania would have many awesome loyal workers and it’d be a beautiful facility in a beautiful country. :)

Re: German environmental groups file objection against Tesla gigafactory permit

#68

Post by lm28469 »

imtringued wrote: post #60
lm28469 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What community ? You can also think about the larger scale. We could open coal mines and gas/oil pipelines to create jobs, it would help your "community" in the near future but if we all continue to do that there won't be any community to care about in the distant future. Also, with 5% of unemployment Germany is hardly in need of God Emperor Musk and his humanitarian help

The factory was built in east Germany which is in need of more well paying jobs. Most existing German companies have set themselves up outside of east Germany and they aren't going to move for the sake of solidarity.

Did you ever stop and consider why it was built so close to the Polish border ?

They're in need of a good PR move ("oh wow Berlin so cool") and cheap labor.

A company is a company is a company, they're not here to create job and support communities, wake up, this is ridiculous

https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/en/building-delays-at-tesla-...

> Business Insider also reported on "undignified working conditions" at the construction site. Several Polish workers were quoted as saying they have to work 12 to 14 hours per day, Monday through Sunday. Despite corona contact restrictions, up to 350 workers are thought to be housed in a small hostel, with up to three people sleeping in small rooms. Furthermore, the research revealed that labourers at Tesla in Grünheide are allegedly being paid only €8.70 per hour, under Germany's €12.85 minimum wage for construction workers.

Re: German environmental groups file objection against Tesla gigafactory permit

#69

Post by imtringued »

avereveard wrote: post #2

Everyone wants a green future as long as it's manufacturer in Africa or Asia

I'll be honest. Nobody cares about Africa (or South America). Everyone only cares about the starving children there. So we send them food and clothes to clear our conscience. Problem solved.

Re: German environmental groups file objection against Tesla gigafactory permit

#70

Post by imtringued »

lm28469 wrote: post #8
avereveard wrote: post #2

Everyone wants a green future as long as it's manufacturer in Africa or Asia

Lol I don't think any environmental group would argument that. More like there will be no green future with personal vehicles, electric or not.

Instead of trying to achieve a perfect ideal you should first find a solution that can get everyone on board. Replacing ICEs with EVs is just one step of many but it's the most agreeable solution over the short term. It's already difficult enough to get people to care about the environment at all.
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