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German environmental groups file objection against Tesla gigafactory permit

reuters.com

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Re: German environmental groups file objection against Tesla gigafactory permit

#51

Post by lm28469 »

zephyr1 wrote: post #22
lm28469 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the only metric you care about is job creation.... We let mega corps rule for the best part of the last century and we all know how it ended. Companies aren't here to create jobs and help mankind, they're here to make money

Maybe this is controversial on HN, but I care more about my community than a spider

What community ?

You can also think about the larger scale. We could open coal mines and gas/oil pipelines to create jobs, it would help your "community" in the near future but if we all continue to do that there won't be any community to care about in the distant future.

Also, with 5% of unemployment Germany is hardly in need of God Emperor Musk and his humanitarian help

Re: German environmental groups file objection against Tesla gigafactory permit

#52

Post by tut-urut-utut »

WanderPanda wrote: post #25

From first hand experience I know that these „environmental“ groups are also big in blocking smaller projects like wind turbines. In the end they are ultra conservative but can paint themselves in a modern, green way

That's actually pretty funny. The same people who want "green energy" end up opposing wind turbines, nuclear, solar and hydro energy.

And what is left? Of course dirty coal and gas?

And which gas? Of course fracked gas imported from the friends from the other side of the planet instead of natural gas imported from the enemy nearby.

Re: German environmental groups file objection against Tesla gigafactory permit

#53

Post by shlant »

newsclues wrote: post #43
shlant wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and many people are realizing that the environment should be considered over costs and deadlines

Are we considering the environment when we delay the mass production of environmentally friendlier electric cars?

I don't think it's fair to compare the specific, fairly measurable consequences of not fully considering how to "prevent highly poisonous gas from escaping from the factory" vs. the more vague and complex environmental impact of a delay in car production.

But lets put that aside and let me ask you this:

What amount of delay would you be ok with in addressing environmental concerns?

Re: German environmental groups file objection against Tesla gigafactory permit

#54

Post by _Microft »

wait_a_minute wrote: post #49
durnygbur wrote: post #30

Good luck setting up in Germany a manufactury alternative to Daimler, BMW, Audi, or VW. It's literally a threat to their existence and they'll react accordingly. Sometimes it shows how disconnected Americans are from the local European realities. Even if Tesla will succeed they'll have to fly workers from Ukraine, Branderburg is a demographical desert. Czechia, Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, and Romania are desperate to…

Musk should just build the plant in Romania instead. Beautiful country, and we will accept the business and tax revenue with open arms ;)

If you want to keep your country beautiful, you might want to consider enforcing some rules so that it stays like that. That's exactly what German groups are trying here. You do not get nice countries by lowering the standards there.

Re: German environmental groups file objection against Tesla gigafactory permit

#55

Post by shlant »

esyir wrote: post #38
shlant wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and many people are realizing that the environment should be considered over costs and deadlines

Until the frivolous complaints get them an image of obstructionism and people start to ignore them. Boy who cried wolf, after all.

sure it's possible both the public and the government officials making the decisions might get alarm fatigue but from what we are seeing, more and more people are caring about environmental impact (even when it comes to electric cars) and think that we aren't doing enough to prevent it. The scrutiny of all major construction projects will probably only continue to increase as public perception continues to shift.

Re: German environmental groups file objection against Tesla gigafactory permit

#56

Post by lm28469 »

EthanHeilman wrote: post #28
lm28469 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol I don't think any environmental group would argument that. More like there will be no green future with personal vehicles, electric or not.

I think you are straw-manning environmental groups here. It seems reasonable to have personal vehicles without climate change or other environmental damage.

> It seems reasonable to have personal vehicles without climate change or other environmental damage.

If you sell it like that sure...

afaik no one has found the solution to that equation, and lithium powered 2 tonnes metal cages transporting 1.4 person (on average) doesn't seem like a good fit to solve it. Sounds like a very inefficient way to do it actually.

It's much more complex than "electric -> green -> good"

Re: German environmental groups file objection against Tesla gigafactory permit

#57

Post by gglnx »

The news is a little bit short, but the objection to the first tests of their machines is, that in a case of emergency the current safety concept lacks measures to prevent the escaping of hydrogen fluoride (see the open letter in German by the Grüne Liga Brandenburg here: https://www.grueneliga-brandenburg.de/index.php?cat=2&pageID...). They claim that changes to this safety concept will require changes to the factory itself and this changes need to be implemented first, before Tesla can start with it's tests.

Re: German environmental groups file objection against Tesla gigafactory permit

#58

Post by durnygbur »

_Microft wrote: post #54
wait_a_minute wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk should just build the plant in Romania instead. Beautiful country, and we will accept the business and tax revenue with open arms ;)

If you want to keep your country beautiful, you might want to consider enforcing some rules so that it stays like that. That's exactly what German groups are trying here. You do not get nice countries by lowering the standards there.

Just south of this manufactury in Lausitz there are the largest open-pit mines of brown coal in Europe. Somehow this is not a problem, or vast open-pit mines are an asset to the countryside and the environment?

Re: German environmental groups file objection against Tesla gigafactory permit

#59

Post by cipher_system »

HatchedLake721 wrote: post #50
newsclues wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What evidence is there that it is a serious problem?

Lol. On one end of the spectrum we have environmental groups making objections against every tiny detail. On the other end we have - “Highly poisonous gas escaping the factory into the environment? What evidence is there that it is a serious problem?”. A very Nestle approach

TBF we have a claim that highly poisonous gas might escape.

I have no idea if thats true, how big the risks are or if things already have been cleared in the normal procedures.

This isn't the first factory in Germany and one would hope they know how to build them safely but who really knows.

Re: German environmental groups file objection against Tesla gigafactory permit

#60

Post by imtringued »

lm28469 wrote: post #51
zephyr1 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe this is controversial on HN, but I care more about my community than a spider

What community ? You can also think about the larger scale. We could open coal mines and gas/oil pipelines to create jobs, it would help your "community" in the near future but if we all continue to do that there won't be any community to care about in the distant future. Also, with 5% of unemployment Germany is hardly in need of God Emperor Musk and his humanitarian help

The factory was built in east Germany which is in need of more well paying jobs. Most existing German companies have set themselves up outside of east Germany and they aren't going to move for the sake of solidarity.
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