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El Salvador Plans to Use Electricity Generated from Volcanoes to Mine Bitcoin

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Re: El Salvador Plans to Use Electricity Generated from Volcanoes to Mine Bitcoin

#61

Post by garydevenay »

epigen wrote: post #33
garydevenay wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This scenario doesn't have any particular features that make access to energy or mining bitcoin the differentiating factor. Illicit fiat and extortion can be used in order to launder illicit fiat in many ways. The underlying problem actually lies in the fiat system, not the Bitcoin one.

> The underlying problem actually lies in the fiat system, not the Bitcoin one. How so?

> How so?

Fiat currencies are exceptionally good instruments for exchange value for illicit purposes. Primarily this is because it is unknown what the total supply of fiat is (although there are reasonable models for estimation) and it's transactional history is impossible to define.

Both of these properties combined (although other factors undoubtably are at play) mean it's very easy for large amounts of fiat to exchange hands without any third parties knowing (i.e cash transactions).

This is the underlying issue that allows fiat currencies to be the best method for transacting for illicit purposes.

Re: El Salvador Plans to Use Electricity Generated from Volcanoes to Mine Bitcoin

#63

Post by garydevenay »

ceejayoz wrote: post #40
dadoge wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will literally have more money in their pockets. Good things happen when people have more money in their pockets - people save more, invest more, build more.

I have a sneaking suspicion the folks with "more money in their pockets" from this are most likely to be President Bukele and his friends.

> the folks with "more money in their pockets"

I would argue that the population who can now operate and opt-out of a USD system where their money is being debased by 20%+ in the last year by a foreign government will be quite a bit better off.

Re: El Salvador Plans to Use Electricity Generated from Volcanoes to Mine Bitcoin

#64

Post by garydevenay »

lucb1e wrote: post #53
vidarh wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or option A + B: Invest in more geothermal - they already have a lot -, and use bitcoin mining when demand is low to help offset the cost. If mining makes it cost-effective to increase sources like geothermal past the point where it covers the base load so it reduces the need for peaker plants, that might be worthwhile (though of course the other option is to invest in storage) But the potential geothermal output for…

Okay but that's not what they're saying, is it? If that was the plan, surely there would be a mention of said plan while they're announcing plans. Would be a bit weird to only announce "we're gonna turn heat into heat+money" but not "and also reduce our climate impact whenever possible".

Some context to this plan:

This idea was presented to President Bukele during a Twitter Spaces[1] session where he discussed the bill with the Bitcoin community whilst it was going through voting. Mining Bitcoin was not something he has previously considered and openly ideated on the call with the community. It seems like a fully proposed plan for how Bitcoin mining will play a part in the country's overall energy policy has likely not yet been fully formed.

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnygiyuG0k&t=4s

Re: El Salvador Plans to Use Electricity Generated from Volcanoes to Mine Bitcoin

#65

Post by ceejayoz »

garydevenay wrote: post #63
ceejayoz wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a sneaking suspicion the folks with "more money in their pockets" from this are most likely to be President Bukele and his friends.

> the folks with "more money in their pockets" I would argue that the population who can now operate and opt-out of a USD system where their money is being debased by 20%+ in the last year by a foreign government will be quite a bit better off.

> opt-out of a USD system where their money is being debased by 20%+ in the last year

You know Bitcoin has taken a 40% tumble in the last month, right?

Re: El Salvador Plans to Use Electricity Generated from Volcanoes to Mine Bitcoin

#67

Post by TomSwirly »

dadoge wrote: post #57
gjulianm wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They will literally have more money in their pockets. That's a big if. Bitcoin transfer fees might be cheaper, but you need to add the cost of converting dollars to bitcoin, plus the volatility of the coin, plus any fees from intermediaries and Lightning nodes. > Good things happen when people have more money in their pockets High amount of remittances are not a cause, but a symptom of underlying problems. Would yo…

Sooo… do you think it’s better to have higher transfer fees? Seems like a no-brainer win though? Even if it doesn’t revolutionize the country

> Sooo... do you think it’s better to have higher transfer fees?

So many conversations with Bitcoin advocates involve them putting ridiculous statements into the mouths of others.

No one said that or anything like it.

Re: El Salvador Plans to Use Electricity Generated from Volcanoes to Mine Bitcoin

#68

Post by ceejayoz »

dadoge wrote: post #60
ceejayoz wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you use PayPal for remittances?

Just one example, PayPal is also for peer-2-peer transfers

The World Bank provides a table of remittance fees to El Salvador.

https://remittanceprices.worldbank.org/en/corridor/United-St...

MoneyGram is free if you do it to a bank account. https://imgur.com/a/6B5G2ax

Re: El Salvador Plans to Use Electricity Generated from Volcanoes to Mine Bitcoin

#69

Post by gjulianm »

dadoge wrote: post #57
gjulianm wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They will literally have more money in their pockets. That's a big if. Bitcoin transfer fees might be cheaper, but you need to add the cost of converting dollars to bitcoin, plus the volatility of the coin, plus any fees from intermediaries and Lightning nodes. > Good things happen when people have more money in their pockets High amount of remittances are not a cause, but a symptom of underlying problems. Would yo…

Sooo… do you think it’s better to have higher transfer fees? Seems like a no-brainer win though? Even if it doesn’t revolutionize the country

Obviously I prefer lower fees. But integrating Bitcoin is not a guarantee that actual, practical fees will be lower. Given the risks of adopting Bitcoin (volatility, fixed economic policy, complexity, difficulty of use), I think potential benefits must be higher than “we maybe get lower transfer fees, or not”.
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