Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

El Salvador Plans to Use Electricity Generated from Volcanoes to Mine Bitcoin

npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 332 posts

Re: El Salvador Plans to Use Electricity Generated from Volcanoes to Mine Bitcoin

#51

Post by vidarh »

lucb1e wrote: post #37

Almost half the electricity produced in El Salvador is from fossil sources (they don't have nuclear power): https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EG.ELC.PETR.ZS?location... Option A: invest in that volcano and reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Option B: invest in that volcano and mine bitcoin. B makes them richer so long as other people keep expecting Bitcoin prices to rise (increasing demand), so I can see why they do…

Or option A + B: Invest in more geothermal - they already have a lot -, and use bitcoin mining when demand is low to help offset the cost. If mining makes it cost-effective to increase sources like geothermal past the point where it covers the base load so it reduces the need for peaker plants, that might be worthwhile (though of course the other option is to invest in storage)

But the potential geothermal output for El Salvador is huge.

Re: El Salvador Plans to Use Electricity Generated from Volcanoes to Mine Bitcoin

#52

Post by gjulianm »

dadoge wrote: post #31
gjulianm wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I'm not mistaken, that 22% is not fees, but the actual wire transfers from people abroad [1,2]. IMHO, it doesn't indicate that transfers are too expensive, but that a lot of people can't find enough work or support in El Salvador and they need to rely on family/friends that emigrated. I don't know how that is going to be solved by Bitcoin. 1: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/BX.TRF.PWKR.DT.GD.ZS?lo... 2: https…

They will literally have more money in their pockets. Good things happen when people have more money in their pockets - people save more, invest more, build more.

> They will literally have more money in their pockets.

That's a big if. Bitcoin transfer fees might be cheaper, but you need to add the cost of converting dollars to bitcoin, plus the volatility of the coin, plus any fees from intermediaries and Lightning nodes.

> Good things happen when people have more money in their pockets

High amount of remittances are not a cause, but a symptom of underlying problems. Would you be as cavalier about the effects of this on ES economy if it was, say, Western Union saying they'd reduce 10% their transfer fees?

It's always the same thing with Bitcoin, apparently it's such a great technology that it can change anything despite the fact that the only "new" thing it can do is to be decentralized. Somehow the argument always ends up being that decreased transfer fees will revolutionize everything (despite the fact that transfer fees might not be lower, and that we've had continuously decreasing transfer fees for years and yet that didn't seem to bring any revolution).

Re: El Salvador Plans to Use Electricity Generated from Volcanoes to Mine Bitcoin

#53

Post by lucb1e »

vidarh wrote: post #51
lucb1e wrote: post #37

Almost half the electricity produced in El Salvador is from fossil sources (they don't have nuclear power): https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EG.ELC.PETR.ZS?location... Option A: invest in that volcano and reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Option B: invest in that volcano and mine bitcoin. B makes them richer so long as other people keep expecting Bitcoin prices to rise (increasing demand), so I can see why they do…

Or option A + B: Invest in more geothermal - they already have a lot -, and use bitcoin mining when demand is low to help offset the cost. If mining makes it cost-effective to increase sources like geothermal past the point where it covers the base load so it reduces the need for peaker plants, that might be worthwhile (though of course the other option is to invest in storage) But the potential geothermal output for…

Okay but that's not what they're saying, is it? If that was the plan, surely there would be a mention of said plan while they're announcing plans. Would be a bit weird to only announce "we're gonna turn heat into heat+money" but not "and also reduce our climate impact whenever possible".

Re: El Salvador Plans to Use Electricity Generated from Volcanoes to Mine Bitcoin

#54

Post by ceejayoz »

dadoge wrote: post #46
ceejayoz wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a sneaking suspicion the folks with "more money in their pockets" from this are most likely to be President Bukele and his friends.

[flagged]

Why would you use PayPal for remittances?

Re: El Salvador Plans to Use Electricity Generated from Volcanoes to Mine Bitcoin

#55

Post by oogabooga123 »

gjulianm wrote: post #49
oogabooga123 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would buy some bonds just because of the idea that a nation could be free from international banking debt. Like a charitable donation, almost

Good luck getting $1B to El Salvador as "almost charitable donations". Not to mention the effect that trying to sell $1B-worth of Bitcoin could have on the market (even just a portion, Bitcoin is accepted nowhere for so they'd need real currency).

I think the idea is that they would take funding in whatever currency they want, pay off the IMF with whatever currency they want, and then investors would get BTC, which is what they want. No need to sell $1bn worth of BTC.

Re: El Salvador Plans to Use Electricity Generated from Volcanoes to Mine Bitcoin

#56

Post by drexlspivey »

hulitu wrote: post #11

Is this paper a subsidiary of the Onion ? "100% clean, 100% renewable, 0 emissions energy from our volcano" . So when a volcano is depleted you plant another one ?

I hate it when volcanos are depleted and I can’t mine any more bitcoin

Re: El Salvador Plans to Use Electricity Generated from Volcanoes to Mine Bitcoin

#57

Post by dadoge »

gjulianm wrote: post #52
dadoge wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will literally have more money in their pockets. Good things happen when people have more money in their pockets - people save more, invest more, build more.

> They will literally have more money in their pockets. That's a big if. Bitcoin transfer fees might be cheaper, but you need to add the cost of converting dollars to bitcoin, plus the volatility of the coin, plus any fees from intermediaries and Lightning nodes. > Good things happen when people have more money in their pockets High amount of remittances are not a cause, but a symptom of underlying problems. Would yo…

Sooo… do you think it’s better to have higher transfer fees?

Seems like a no-brainer win though? Even if it doesn’t revolutionize the country

Re: El Salvador Plans to Use Electricity Generated from Volcanoes to Mine Bitcoin

#58

Post by gjulianm »

oogabooga123 wrote: post #55
gjulianm wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck getting $1B to El Salvador as "almost charitable donations". Not to mention the effect that trying to sell $1B-worth of Bitcoin could have on the market (even just a portion, Bitcoin is accepted nowhere for so they'd need real currency).

I think the idea is that they would take funding in whatever currency they want, pay off the IMF with whatever currency they want, and then investors would get BTC, which is what they want. No need to sell $1bn worth of BTC.

That'd solve the "selling Bitcoin" problem but not the one of managing the risk of a US$ loan that is paid back with Bitcoin. I mean, ES could pay you back in time without defaulting and you could find yourself losing quite a bit of money. I think people would be asking for far higher rates in that case.

Re: El Salvador Plans to Use Electricity Generated from Volcanoes to Mine Bitcoin

#59

Post by garydevenay »

StavrosK wrote: post #39
garydevenay wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's a fair comment. Re-using the word "energy" in that sense is potentially misleading to always mean electrical energy. As for the value of 1 BTC, it's value fluctuates if you operate on a base currency which is not BTC, but that is the same for any currency exchange. (I am suggesting currency, though I also understand that BTC may not be unanimously agreed on as a currency— but in El Salvador's case it i…

> As for the value of 1 BTC, it's value fluctuates if you operate on a base currency which is not BTC, but that is the same for any currency exchange. Yes but also, even though 1 BTC will always be worth 1 BTC, the amount of work it buys you won't be the same, as with any currency. In theory, you can also store USD for an infinite amount of time (assuming you exchange the paper for new paper when it decays), but it,…

> In theory, you can also store USD for an infinite amount of time

This is actually not true, as 1 USD does not equal a static percentage of all USD. If you look at the stock-to-flow of storing value in USD compared to Bitcoin or even Gold, it's immediately apparent that USD or central bank backed fiat currency is an exceptionally inefficient way to store value as it's being debased at alarming rates.

This is why $1000 was worth way more in 1980 than it is today.

Edit Note: I actually just re-read your comment and realised I misread. I read store value for an infinite amount of time

Post reply on HN