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What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

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Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#671
post #586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We're talking about a new type of car feature, one that needs constant work and updates. Why would it need constant updates? They should release and sell the feature when it is done.

Because we're talking about an extremely complex algorithm that will need tweaking with time.

Sure, tweak all you want. Sell when it is ready.

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#672
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So much this. I hope I don't stand on too many toes here. Actually I don't care. My father has a self driving enabled Tesla Model S which he paid a hell of a lot of money for that he doesn't have as he's in his 70s, living entirely off the remains of the house he just sold. He's convinced it'll be any day now that he gets full self driving and that it'll change the world. He tells me he loves the car and phones me da…

If you leave the self driving aside, the model s is an amazing car. Compared with a high end bmw/merc/audi you get more features as standard - though I do admit the finish/build quality on those cars is superior. I have a 4 year old MS, and genuinely like it and love the acceleration/nimbleness and have experienced very few issues. I'd consider tesla again for my next car, but FSD would not be a factor either way.

Used Model S's I'd agree with you. The new ones where you're apparently going to need to drive with a yoke, and without a turn signal stalk or wiper controls outside of the touchscreen... not so much. Tesla has a great electric powertrain and charging network; I just wish they'd stick to that and leave off all the nonsense. (See also, falcon wing doors, and air vents you need to adjust via a touch screen menu.)

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#673
post #208

Having finally had a chance to test-"drive" an advanced autopilot Tesla last weekend, I can confidently say at the current level of that tech I would pay less than nothing. At best (cruising down a well-marked highway) it was only slightly worse than useless, taking a different line in the lane than I considered optimal, leaving me feeling a background level of apprehension. From there it ranged through frustrating,…

What did you test-drive? Regular Tesla auto-pilot, or the limited-access FSD Beta? They are radically different experiences.

I'm not certain since it was just a test drive, and there was no Tesla rep with me - it did say "Beta" on the autopilot screen, and seemed happy to engage on any kind of street, but I don't know if that means it was the full FSD Beta. (I'd be kind of surprised if they just handed people the (virtual) keys to that with no warnings, but Tesla does tend to do surprising things.)

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#674
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can play high res FPS games on remote GPUs now, so I expect that part could be managed, if not now then in the very near future.

Presumably those remote gpus are not halfway around the world. Speed of light sets an inherent floor on the latency. The issue is not the idea of remote control per se, though connection drops etc. would be a risk, but the notion yoga can outsource it to somewhere with far cheaper labour.

Ah, yes, that's a good point.

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#675
post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As most new cars are leased, at least Europe for premium brands, anyway, I think that won't be an issue. BMW will sell your on, not you.

> BMW will sell your on, not you. It does not matter who sells the car. What matters is whether: (the price of used car with heated seats that must be paid for) - (the money already made from renting out heated seats) > (price of a used car with heated seats that are free) The identity of the seller does not alter this equation at all, nor can it flip a loss to a gain.

The seats are in, as a leased car it never belonged to you, but rather BMW. Now, it is up to BMW how they price the seats for you. And how they price them when selling the car of after you returned upon leasing end.

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#676
post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And of course it is to extract more money from consumers, that's the goal of every company. No it isn't. We don't have companies so that they can extract money from consumers. We have companies to help efficiently distribute wealth through the community to maximise the probability of social needs being filled. If the goal was to extract money from consumers and give it to those with spare capital, there are vastly…

Not to be curt, but this is one of the most naive things I've read on this website. 90% of the time, people start companies to make money, not to "efficiently distribute wealth through the community."

I appreciate your curtness, but I don't think I was naive. Can you answer my question: So why do they bother producing valuable goods? Why don't we adopt more efficient means of transferring wealth from those without spare capital to those who have it?

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't just create a company - you need a legal framework for a company to exists.

> You can't just create a company - you need a legal framework for a company to exists. Not really, because “company” is a generic term for any organization of people with a common business purpose independent of whether it has a distinct recognized legal recognition, existence, or treatment separate from the constituent individuals. A corporation, LLC, or other legally recognized business entity requires a legal fra…

> Not really, because “company” is a generic term for any organization of people with a common business purpose independent of whether it has a distinct recognized legal recognition, existence, or treatment separate from the constituent individuals.

This isn't really true. A company doesn't include the employees of the company, not the way I used it and not the way the parent used it. So it doesn't refer to a generic term for any organisation of people with a common business purpose. It really only refers to those which have some category of legal framework.

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And of course it is to extract more money from consumers, that's the goal of every company. No it isn't. We don't have companies so that they can extract money from consumers. We have companies to help efficiently distribute wealth through the community to maximise the probability of social needs being filled. If the goal was to extract money from consumers and give it to those with spare capital, there are vastly…

"Why would they even bother producing valuable goods?" Like opium by the East India company or drugs by mexican cartels? Getting people to buy something is a lot easier than chasing them with a gun, just look at how bad we are at colecting taxes. "We have companies to help efficiently distribute wealth" There is no economic theory, from marxist to neoliberal, that claims conpanies are there to distribute wealth. They…

Perhaps I should have said "organise capital" instead of "distribute wealth". I mean they cause it to be available to certain people.

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#679
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The _actual_ sharing economy is great. Your beef is probably with corporations that masquerade as part of the sharing economy in order to exploit regulatory loopholes (e.g. Uber, Airbnb). For an example of the actual sharing economy: I'm a member of a local cooperative that owns and maintains a fleet of ~3k cars, distributed across the country at most train stations and in many neighborhoods. For an initial deposit o…

I know this is 9 hours old, but this is 100% not for me. I want to leave items in my car for tomorrow: my face mask, (previously) CDs and tapes, etc. I want to spend the extra money for 'grippy' tires on my car, or do other mods like use sticky notes on the dash. I want my seat to be in the same position I left it in: It can take a day or two to get it just right. I want to have the option to use a seat cover for com…

That's fair. I can see the benefits in most of the things you listed. Chances are, this boils down to whether you regard your car as sort-of an extension to your home. I don't, so I'm perfectly happy to have _a_ car available to me at a moment's notice. I understand that many people do, and they'll prefer being able to own a car and really make it their own. The whole car sharing thing is also predicated on good availability of cars near where you need them. It works great for me, in an urban setting; it would be wholly useless if I lived somewhere out in the sticks.

The point I want to make: SaaS, RegArb and the sharing economy are different things. If VW tries to charge you per-hour to use the software installed on your car, then let's talk about abusive software licensing. If Uber skirts regulations to muscle into the transportation market, let's frame the discussion around employment law and transport regulations. RegArb startups make it a habit of framing their business model as something else; and we're all better off if we don't fall for that trap :)

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#680
post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are alternatives that doesn't go as far as isolation or religion of course. You mention a great example yourself that shows how you can be extreme/religious for no good reason when a open alternative is clearly present: It's a worldwide phenomenon that motorcyclists in general wants to be open and inclusive. We wave to each other when we pass on the road, talk when we meet at gas stations and so on. But a Harle…

Heh. So I ride with mostly Harley guys though I don’t ride a Harley. One of the reasons we don’t wave back when riding as a group is that we use hand signals to communicate and waving looks like a left turn signal. As a result, we aren’t allowed to wave on group rides. Secondary thing is that motorcycling is just a larger and looser consumer tribe than Harley or Yamaha or Ducati riders. Not quite as large as motorcyc…

I can see how a group ride could see it like this but single Harley riders don't greet you back either (unless I'm on a Harley or something they in passing might think is a Harley).

I'm guessing you are from the US, which I'm not, but I have never seen this in other bikers no matter the brand. Sure Ducati guys often hang out with eachother at a meet, as do other groups, but it's not like they don't greet other riders.

Heck, I even wave (end get waved at) when I drive my Alfa Romeo by both other Alfa drivers but also people in classic cars (and a few Ducati riders even). Totally different cultures than Harley riders, which I think is sad.

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