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Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

lore.kernel.org

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Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#441

Post by tekknik »

gremlinsinc wrote: post #386
tiborsaas wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like, having this magic, absolutely mind boggling potion that prevents serious illness and death isn't already the lottery win of our lifetime?? No, because a lot of people trust their friends or personal gurus more than any scientist or research. It doesn't matter what crap their social bubble is filled with, they can relate more to it.

I had someone tell me "science" is made to "replace" religion as another control mechanism... it's the "new religion". I was at a loss of words...

Just like I’m at a loss for words as to why you think religion is a source of control. Unless you mean discipline.

Why do people still have to attack religion?

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#442

Post by tekknik »

542458 wrote: post #201
swader999 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same with the push for vaccine passports. Really gets my fur up and question why the need for heavy hands.

Serious question, how is a vaccine passport any different from a proof of immunization (one common form being the International Certificate of Vaccination or Prophylaxis), which is standard fare for travelling to/from many countries already? We’ve been using these to combat the spread of diseases like yellow fever for years.

Because we don’t force people to get all vaccines to travel. Requiring a vaccine passport for the covid vaccine forces people to get it, which is the real reason people are advocating for it.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#443

Post by tekknik »

stavros wrote: post #145
swader999 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same with the push for vaccine passports. Really gets my fur up and question why the need for heavy hands.

Because people who are in the ICU because they refuse to get vaccinated are costing the taxpayer a shitload of money. I'd be all for "you can stay unvaccinated if you like, but you won't get an ICU bed if you get severe COVID", but that's a heavier hand than a passport.

I’m pretty sure if I go to the ICU it’s my insurance company paying the bill.

Also suddenly we care about how much tax revenue we spend?

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#444

Post by imbnwa »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #357
trutannus wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like, having this magic, absolutely mind boggling potion that prevents serious illness and death isn't already the lottery win of our lifetime A lot of it boils down to people not trusting what they're seeing. Frankly, governments have done the world a disservice by speaking before they really had all the information at the start of the pandemic. In Canada at least an insane amount of what was said turned out to be…

Frankly, governments have done the world a disservice by speaking before they really had all the information at the start of the pandemic. They were doing the best they could to manage a crisis that it was their job to manage in an unprecedented situation. If people expected them to have perfect answers and solutions, they had unrealistic expectations.

Yeah, I don't get this "lost trust" line, that's like a military commander telling his soldiers to go left, then when gunfire comes from the left, tells them to go right, but the soldiers object to his new order and lose confidence in him because he already said go left.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#445

Post by tekknik »

SECProto wrote: post #265
baobabKoodaa wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "magic" from vaccinations comes from vaccinating most of the population so that the epidemic fizzles out. In that scenario it doesn't matter that much whether you personally are vaccinated or not. An unvaccinated person benefits from herd immunity like a vaccinated person does. From the viewpoint of a healthy young person, the risk/reward ratio of taking a vaccine is bad.

> From the viewpoint of a healthy young person, the risk/reward ratio of taking a vaccine is bad. Absolutely false. The disease can and does have severe and sometimes long-lasting impacts on young healthy people. The mRNA vaccines don't have any impact worse than a sore arm. And we aren't getting to a herd immunity level of vaccination if young people are unvaccinated.

How can you make this decision for others?

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#446

Post by tekknik »

kaba0 wrote: post #360
belorn wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The mRNA vaccines don't have any impact worse than a sore arm. Lets not go too far with statements like that. People with history of allergic reactions are told to not take it, and the Pfizer–BioNTech mRNA has a rate of about eleven cases per million doses of vaccine administered. As with any medicine, there are a risk/reward aspect to it. If you take a over-the-counter pain pill there is a small but detectable ris…

> People with history of allergic reactions are told to not take it Then they should not get the vaccine and be shielded by herd immunity. There are also several other illnesses which are not compatible with vaccinations but the number of those people are small. So healthy people should partake in the vaccination as for them, the risk-reward ratio is definitely worth it.

> So healthy people should partake in the vaccination as for them, the risk-reward ratio is definitely worth it.

How can you make this decision for someone else?

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#447

Post by tekknik »

nneonneo wrote: post #270
baobabKoodaa wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "magic" from vaccinations comes from vaccinating most of the population so that the epidemic fizzles out. In that scenario it doesn't matter that much whether you personally are vaccinated or not. An unvaccinated person benefits from herd immunity like a vaccinated person does. From the viewpoint of a healthy young person, the risk/reward ratio of taking a vaccine is bad.

Sure, until the vaccination rate falls below the herd immunity threshold, whereupon outbreaks pretty much immediately occur. This has been seen repeatedly with measles, for example, as it is highly transmissible and it doesn’t take much of a drop in vaccination rates to make outbreaks likely. Not taking a vaccine if you’re young and healthy is a purely selfish move. Not taking a vaccine should be reserved for only th…

> Not taking a vaccine if you’re young and healthy is a purely selfish move. Not taking a vaccine should be reserved for only those people who cannot take a vaccine…

Why does this always resort to force and control? Do you really not understand how that just turns people off?

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#448

Post by tekknik »

outworlder wrote: post #79
dvt wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Thank you, Linus for standing up to the wealth of misinformation out there and holding his ground. Being a pompous ass might feel good, especially when you think you are (or you actually are) smarter than your opponent, but it won't sway anyone. In fact, it does quite the opposite. If you're seriously trying to convince someone they're wrong, you need to be kind, be patient, and have a calm, productive discussion -…

Linus is not in the wrong here. You have an anti-vax spouting BS on the Linux Kernel dev list of all places. It's absolutely not the right venue for that. He could have just expelled the idiot from the list. He chose not to do that. Some people will listen to (perceived) authority. Linus has a large following. It's fair to say that a non-zero number of individuals may be persuaded by his strong stance. I doubt the pe…

> They are actively trying to spread even more misinformation. This should be contained just like we contain viruses. It's not really up for debate. Don't like a particular vaccine? Try to get another one if you can.

Here we are again with the force and control. Shutting down “misinformation” means you must be able to define what “misinformation” is. We’ve made mistakes on this many times historically and we still have groups of people running around and saying “shut up and listen”. nothing will get accomplished like this.

> Don't try to prevent others from getting it based on superstition.

This I actually agree with.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#449

Post by rorykoehler »

ghoward wrote: post #425
dlp211 wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If masks and social distancing didn't work, you need to have some idea of why the Flu had its mildest year ever. Also, countless people have demonstrated with pulseox meters that blood oxygen saturation is unaffected by mask wearing, so while those findings are interesting, you are far too quick to draw any type of conclusions that masks don't work and/or are harmful.

And people are far too quick to think that masks do work and/or are not harmful. What happened to the Precautionary Principle?

A mask isn’t going to hurt you if it doesn’t work. Honestly my 3 year old displays more logic in his thought than this. And before you say it no the virus won’t appear on the mask anymore more so than it would enter your mouth and lungs if the mask wasn’t on.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#450

Post by tekknik »

kaba0 wrote: post #366
dvt wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Rude and uncalled for, even after your edit. I was just correcting the term in the edit, but I agree I'm being a bit inflammatory. > Deplatforming works. No it doesn't. The entire history of Western Liberalism—since the Magna Carta onwards—teaches us that censorship is quite literally never the answer.

> No it doesn't. The entire history of Western Liberalism—since the Magna Carta onwards—teaches us that censorship is quite literally never the answer. There is basically almost no precedent to todays problem of misinformation spread, so historical examples are near useless. Censorship is a trivial problem to overcome in the modern world contrary to the last century’s vision, one can’t really hide anything on the int…

> There is basically almost no precedent to todays problem of misinformation spread, so historical examples are near useless.

I’m sorry but what?!?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disinformation

The only difference these days is everybody has a printing press. So what you’re advocating for is removing someone’s first amendment right.

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