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Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

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Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#381

Post by premium-komodo »

alexvoda wrote: post #207
premium-komodo wrote: post #59

If you think it might be a little inappropriate to care much about a programmer's endorsement of a vaccine, here's an actual famous doctor saying "for God's sake don't take this thing". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IBv3A8-ShI

Ok, I'll bite. I was willing to assume he might have some legitimate concern. A quick Google hoever reveals he was a Covid denier from the start. There is plenty of evidence that the pandemic is real. Why should the oppinion about the risk of the cure of someone who denied the risk of of the pandemic, be relevant? How does a credentialed person go off the rails so badly??

You're assuming your own hypothesis. In this thread, the "believe the science" people are elevating the opinion of some unqualified celebrity because he has the "correct" opinion, and ignoring/suppressing the opinion of a highly qualified expert because he was the "wrong" opinion.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#382

Post by sillysaurusx »

Taniwha wrote: post #289
sillysaurusx wrote: post #229

I was surprised to discover one genuine anti-vax fact: if you're diabetic and you're taking a certain drug, you must be very careful before taking the COVID vaccine: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26953326 That's not really anti-vax, but an acquaintance died a couple weeks after getting vaccinated due to diabetes complications, and I've always wondered if this was the cause. I don't think I should post this wit…

It doesn't say that, it says you should stop taking those drugs if you contract Covid, not if you are vaccinated - these are different things

I agree, but the reply to my PSA said otherwise.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#383

Post by fastaguy88 »

moralestapia wrote: post #41
lalaland1125 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What did he say that you would consider to be wrong or unverified?

Well, there's a lot of evidence for mRNA transfer between species in other kingdoms; read on about reverse transcriptase [1] that is literally how some viruses spread when they enter the human body. Whether that mechanism still goes on when some of the components are missing, well, we presume it won't happen but there's not enough and definite evidence for that. And for those who love appealing to authority, I do hav…

I just looked at each of the papers you cite, and none of them support the claim of mRNA transfer between species. They talk about reverse transcription of RNAs in the same cell. (Which kingdoms - there are only three - are using mRNA for gene transfer?)

The last paper you cite shows that if you reverse transcribe a virus, you can get it to integrate into the genome, which is not very surprising, but it there is no evidence that this has happened in nature. And I have no doubt that people are checking - running PCR on genomic DNA of infected individuals.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#384

Post by gremlinsinc »

neither_color wrote: post #304
pciexpgpu wrote: post #18

This is good. Now states are combating such hesitancy by drawing lottery for vaccinated folks. Like, having this magic, absolutely mind boggling potion that prevents serious illness and death *isn't* already the lottery win of our lifetime?? People in India and elsewhere are dying because of lack of vaccines and here we have educated, first world countries struggle to get their citizens vaccinated. Unfortunately sham…

>Unfortunately shaming such people will only push them further into antivax territory. Funny that you say that, I had the same thought when buying groceries last week. The cashier started telling me she'll never get it because it's being mandated to cull us and there's some secret database of deaths yada yada yada. Mind you I didn't ask. I felt sorry for her, even worried. She's a kind enough middle aged lady, she's…

Brilliant trolling sir.

I hope it works. I've done some similar on reddit comments. It's hard not to want to hit them over the head though...

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#385

Post by alevskaya »

moralestapia wrote: post #327
alevskaya wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all of your comments here you're being pretty ridiculous - you've read some books and articles, but are painting stories here in such a credulous fashion that makes me think you haven't actually done much work with cells and viruses. I was a genetic engineer for 20 years and engineered plenty of viruses for therapeutics, including plenty of retroviruses. The existence of reverse transcriptases in nature does not i…

>In all of your comments here you're being pretty ridiculous [...] Well, that says more about you than me, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. >I was a genetic engineer for 20 years and engineered plenty of viruses for therapeutics, including plenty of retroviruses. Your website and LinkedIn say otherwise ... unless you were doing it as a hobby? Sure, then. Given all your (presumed) experience, what's your opinion on this: https://www.pnas.o…

The paper you link to is overexpressing LINE1 on plasmid in HEK293 cells and coinfecting w. sars-cov-2 - not exactly a natural setup! They see some nucleocapsid fragment integration and limited expression, but it's a pretty forced experiment, honestly. Also the whole virus is very different from the mRNA payload of the vaccines. Having a random chunk snagged by an overexpressed retrotransposon is a far cry from a meaningful integration event. Though LINE/Alu transposon integrations are an interesting driver of evolution on million-year timescales.

(and: not a hobby. I was at UCSF, Stanford, and helped start several biotechs. You would have more traction here if you acted a little more thoughtful with those trying to talk to you.)

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#386

Post by gremlinsinc »

tiborsaas wrote: post #224
pciexpgpu wrote: post #18

This is good. Now states are combating such hesitancy by drawing lottery for vaccinated folks. Like, having this magic, absolutely mind boggling potion that prevents serious illness and death *isn't* already the lottery win of our lifetime?? People in India and elsewhere are dying because of lack of vaccines and here we have educated, first world countries struggle to get their citizens vaccinated. Unfortunately sham…

> Like, having this magic, absolutely mind boggling potion that prevents serious illness and death isn't already the lottery win of our lifetime?? No, because a lot of people trust their friends or personal gurus more than any scientist or research. It doesn't matter what crap their social bubble is filled with, they can relate more to it.

I had someone tell me "science" is made to "replace" religion as another control mechanism... it's the "new religion".

I was at a loss of words...

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#387

Post by analyte123 »

moralestapia wrote: post #295
analyte123 wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that according to these papers, if there was vaccine mRNA in the reproductive tract immediately prior to or immediately after fertilization, then theoretically the spike protein could possibly get integrated into the offspring’s genome. But how could the vaccine mRNA end up in the reproductive tract? Seems unlikely. It’s intramuscular, not in a vein. The implications of sperm-mediated reverse transcription a…

That is one of the dumbest possible interpretations you could make from those references. The point was to show (to unfamiliar readers) that there exists plenty of mechanisms by which RNA -> DNA could happen, and it has been extensively studied and characterized.

The context is a guy claiming the mRNA vaccines will create a “humanoid race” with no evidence and everyone rushing to the other side and saying there’s no situation where exogenous RNA can ever be integrated into the genome, also without evidence. I doubt anything like this occurs with the mRNA vaccines, but you helpfully exposed this dialectic with the links.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#388

Post by gremlinsinc »

caeril wrote: post #354
barbazoo wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> prevents serious illness and death > Only in 60+ patients with co-morbidity. That's false. See [1] for data on deaths by age in the US. There's about 115,000 deaths in the age groups [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-...

GP should have said " or with co-morbidities". Digging into the A year of largely ineffective masking hysteria and not one noteworthy public health figure suggested putting down the donut to reduce the risk of death from COVID-19. We shuttered gyms and discouraged outdoor activity instead.

What about that broadway actor who was 40 or so, young kid, had his leg amputated spent like 120 days in ICU and didn't make it? Pretty sure he wasn't obese.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#389

Post by kaba0 »

haswell wrote: post #219
wizzwizz4 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very wrong. You mean nucleotides, not chromosomes – but they don't need to be replicated, so long as the codons are. The custom not-found-in-nature nucleotide is equivalent to a natural one, for all purposes except being detected by the immune system. The mRNA is at no point transcribed into DNA. I think this is what you meant – but it might help if you researched the mRNA vaccine before posting internet comm…

I don't really understand the science here, so I'm hoping you'll clarify for the lay-people like me. Setting the technical issues aside, what's the bottom line? I think OP's general point was: "This is not dangerous in the way some people believe it to be dangerous". Do any of your corrections change that outcome/conclusion in a meaningful way? (I'm not asking to call your comment into question, but because I don't k…

I think wizzwizz4 only corrected the (quite big) factual problems of the grandparent. But about the claim of “the vaccine can modify our DNA”, I think this reply is great: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27467454

Basically, while there are known mechanisms for mRNAs to getting converted to DNA, these quite complex mechanisms don’t just exist there. And the mRNA injected gets destroyed in ~half an hour. Basically, if there would be a constantly working mechanism for converting mRNA to DNA, our genome would constantly grow significantly since all sorts of mRNAs are constantly created inside cells.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#390

Post by [deleted] »

neither_color wrote: post #304
pciexpgpu wrote: post #18

This is good. Now states are combating such hesitancy by drawing lottery for vaccinated folks. Like, having this magic, absolutely mind boggling potion that prevents serious illness and death *isn't* already the lottery win of our lifetime?? People in India and elsewhere are dying because of lack of vaccines and here we have educated, first world countries struggle to get their citizens vaccinated. Unfortunately sham…

>Unfortunately shaming such people will only push them further into antivax territory. Funny that you say that, I had the same thought when buying groceries last week. The cashier started telling me she'll never get it because it's being mandated to cull us and there's some secret database of deaths yada yada yada. Mind you I didn't ask. I felt sorry for her, even worried. She's a kind enough middle aged lady, she's…

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