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Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

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221–230 of 649 posts

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#221
post #15

Absolutely agree with everything Linus says here. But I'm almost equally concerned that there's an awful lot of people on the pro-science bandwagon who don't actually support science, but simply don't tolerate dissent or questioning, and that's unscientific and potentially harmful too. I scanned most of the Pfizer trial and was wondering why we expected the immunity after the vaccine to last longer than natural immun…

For the curious who were left a little lacking in an answer to OP's question:

For simplicity's sake, your immune system has two main things of concern here: antibodies and memory cells (B and T). Antibodies are the short-term "find and kill invaders" proteins. They're looking for a particular antigen to attack and do so well, but they don't last very long. Memory cells are basically blueprints which stick around for much longer than the antibodies (some studies indicate for decades), so that if your body ever encounters those same antigens again it recognizes them much faster and starts pumping out the antibodies much faster as well.

So, why would a mRNA vaccine result in better long-term protection than COVID-19 itself? Well, the thinking here is that because an mRNA vaccine in this case only results in the creation of the singular spike protein, the antibodies created to fight off the invader are very focused, as they're only ever going to be looking for that one protein. In the same way, the memory cells your body creates will also be very focused. Your immune system post-vaccine is therefore very well adapted at targeting that particular protein/antigen (could be an amino acid that is part of the protein).

Meanwhile an immune system fighting off actual COVID-19 might be creating antibodies and memory cells that are targeting slightly different antigens, as the overall coronavirus has 29 different proteins your immune system could be looking at to find antigens. This could result in a little bit more "overlap". e.g. You have two antibodies each keyed to a different antigen. They both find the same sars-cov-2 target and bind to their two respective sites. They're now doing "redundant work". Additionally, any antibody which is targeting an antigen that is not the spike protein is probably going to be less effective (the spike protein was targeted for the vaccine because it accounts for most of the outer surface area of the virus, which obviously makes it the best target for antibodies which must "bind" to something).

tl;dr: mRNA vaccines might be more effective than natural immunity because they are creating tools which attack only the most targetable of sars-cov-2's proteins – the spike protein. Natural immunity might give a more "diverse" response, but this is unneeded and could actually hinder secondary response if it is creating tools which are less effective.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are a LOT of anti-vaxxers who disingenuously couch their advocacy as "I'm only asking questions" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning

One of the thousand unfalsifiable “troll” accusations. There is no way to differentiate a troll from either a fool, an extremist, or simply one who happens to not share the opinion of the reader.

This presumes that anyone on the Internet owes a troll their time and effort to discern between a fool, an extremist, a shitposter, a troll or a misguided but earnest individual who shares a genuinely held but scientifically false opinion.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#223

> The half-life of mRNA is a few hours. Any injected mRNA will be all gone from your body in a day or two. Can someone with more knowledge comment on whether this is true for components of the vaccine that aren't just the mRNA bits? I am not sure, but I assume there are various other components that form the delivery vehicle for the vaccine, stabilize it for storage, and so on. What are the actual mechanisms for thos…

The lipid nanoparticle is just lipids. Unless you happen to have an allergic reaction to the specific components you should worry a lot more about eating a cheeseburger and what eliminates all those chemicals from your system.

The mRNA delivery system is about as close to "nothing" as you can get.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#224

This is good. Now states are combating such hesitancy by drawing lottery for vaccinated folks. Like, having this magic, absolutely mind boggling potion that prevents serious illness and death *isn't* already the lottery win of our lifetime?? People in India and elsewhere are dying because of lack of vaccines and here we have educated, first world countries struggle to get their citizens vaccinated. Unfortunately sham…

> Like, having this magic, absolutely mind boggling potion that prevents serious illness and death isn't already the lottery win of our lifetime??

No, because a lot of people trust their friends or personal gurus more than any scientist or research. It doesn't matter what crap their social bubble is filled with, they can relate more to it.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#225
post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been accused of this before and it’s fucking bullshit.

Were you saying something racist? I'm just asking.

Come on, really!? In a discussion about how trolls use "I am just asking", you decided that doing the same is a good idea. I am not op, but I have been accused of sealioning in the exact opposite direction: I was defending some curriculum based on ideas from critical race theory.

Edit: Well, as the comment below alluded to, I probably missed a pretty obvious piece of sarcasm... This is certainly funny in hindsight.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#226
post #26

I cant +1 this enough. Thank you, Linus for standing up to the wealth of misinformation out there and holding his ground.

> Thank you, Linus for standing up to the wealth of misinformation out there and holding his ground. Being a pompous ass might feel good, especially when you think you are (or you actually are) smarter than your opponent, but it won't sway anyone. In fact, it does quite the opposite. If you're seriously trying to convince someone they're wrong, you need to be kind, be patient, and have a calm, productive discussion -…

He doesn’t need to because as he notes, the virus is waning because better people are getting the mRNA version, not just full blown covid which the non-vaccinated will be getting on random occasions many months or even years from now.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#227
The person who posted the vaccine misinformation had undergone some personal loss for which he blames the medical system. While this doesn't excuse spreading misinformation, it helped me understand where his desire to sow doubt in organised medicine could have come from: https://patientsafetymovement.org/advocacy/patients-and-fami...

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#228
"get vaccinated" should probably be heard by that person but it's still really not as easy as in Germany to get vaccinated as it might be in some other countries. I look at the UK/US/Canada (many parts of the EU) like they are on a different planet, because they are slowly going back to normal for months now, while I still can't get vaccinated here, even though I want to since the start of the year. The prioritization of old and sick people has just been lifted 4 days ago and the state I live in says that I still can't get an appointment until the mid of the month. And even then I should not get my hopes up to get an appointment quickly, as the vaccination centers have allocated their supply for second shots for the whole of June. Right now it seems likely that my employer will actually be quicker in getting a vaccine for me than my government. Actually off-topic, but it annoys me pretty much every day and I felt invited to rant by Linus assuming it's just that easy here.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#229
I was surprised to discover one genuine anti-vax fact: if you're diabetic and you're taking a certain drug, you must be very careful before taking the COVID vaccine: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26953326

That's not really anti-vax, but an acquaintance died a couple weeks after getting vaccinated due to diabetes complications, and I've always wondered if this was the cause.

I don't think I should post this without pointing out that I'm strongly pro-vax, though. It was just surprising.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#230
post #152

Ivermectin and HCQ sure got shut down hard even though recent studies are giving them some credit. If they had been a valid option, emergency use authorisation wouldn't have been granted. I honestly don't know what to think about all of this. I've seen a lot of censorship and stifling of speech. Reading Fauci's emails also makes me hesitate. I think trust in the experts will really take a hit going forward. I did get…

Can you point to a specific email that makes you hesitant?

This article pretty much covers them all. It doesn't look good on him. Some of the redaections are due to ongoing investigations as well.

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/fauci-emails-reveal-damag...

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