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Linus Torvalds: Get vaccinated. Stop believing the anti-vax lies

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Re: Linus Torvalds: Get vaccinated. Stop believing the anti-vax lies

#101

Post by betwixthewires »

CaliforniaKarl wrote: post #60
betwixthewires wrote: post #45

But what if I don't want to? I'd call the idea that people's decision not to is predicated on an anti vax worldview similar in substance to a frivolous conspiracy theory.

I think you are conflating a person and people. In this case, Linus is responding specifically to Enrico Weigelt, who is making the claim that the COVID vaccines are a "generic human experiment that basically creates a new humanoid race (people who generate and exhaust the toxic spike proteine, whose gene sequence doesn't look quote natural)." Linus' email is directed wholly towards Enrico. If you don't want to, then…

Well then we have a sensational misleading title on our hands.

Yeah the whole nonsense about the vaccine cresting a new genome is ridiculous, it's sad that some people are buying it. Apparently even Mark Zuckerberg fell for it for a short while early on.

Re: Linus Torvalds: Get vaccinated. Stop believing the anti-vax lies

#102

Post by igetspam »

decremental wrote: post #93
effie wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My body is not about me? Which people around me are more affected when I take vaccine than me?

Like they say, "my body, my choice."

Two problems:

1. You can't use that defense in one situation and ignore it in another

2. The thing you're mocking (abortion) has individual consequences, where the thing you're arguing against (vaccination) has community consequences

If you are the only viable human victim of the decision, then it is your body and your choice. But just like being a suicide bomber, it's the victims around you that have to be considered. I don't give a crap if you blow yourself up in the woods or in your garage, as long as you don't hurt anyone else.

Re: Linus Torvalds: Get vaccinated. Stop believing the anti-vax lies

#103

Post by King-Aaron »

Someone1234 wrote: post #68
vacjrj wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

99.97% survival rate for our demographic. When we can sue should we suffer an adverse reaction, then the cost-benefit analysis may even out. Right now, it’s all but downside.

Sorry, what is "our" demographic?

"Human beings between the ages of 0 and 100" I'm guessing, which would make the comment false

Re: Linus Torvalds: Get vaccinated. Stop believing the anti-vax lies

#104

Post by vacjrj »

Negitivefrags wrote: post #99
apatheticonion wrote: post #32

I'm genuinely shocked at how many of my colleagues are in the anti-vaxx club. Literally half of my team have said they will not get the vaccine when it's available to them. One citing a podcast which talked about how the vaccine causes programmed cell death and the other because "it's all a bit suspicious". Great guys, intelligent and generally good to be around. I didn't know how to react when I found out.

I wish people wouldn’t conflate not wanting to take this particular vaccine at this particular time with being “anti-vax”. I am vaccinated. I vaccinate my kids and have done so as recently as a few months ago. I believe in vaccines. But I’m not ready for this one yet. When it has gone through the same FDA approval process as would be used for any vaccine I will be first in line. I don’t see why people are so offended…

The propaganda machine has been lambasting anyone showing skepticism. It’s the lab leak theory all over again.

Re: Linus Torvalds: Get vaccinated. Stop believing the anti-vax lies

#105

Post by dangrossman »

Negitivefrags wrote: post #99
apatheticonion wrote: post #32

I'm genuinely shocked at how many of my colleagues are in the anti-vaxx club. Literally half of my team have said they will not get the vaccine when it's available to them. One citing a podcast which talked about how the vaccine causes programmed cell death and the other because "it's all a bit suspicious". Great guys, intelligent and generally good to be around. I didn't know how to react when I found out.

I wish people wouldn’t conflate not wanting to take this particular vaccine at this particular time with being “anti-vax”. I am vaccinated. I vaccinate my kids and have done so as recently as a few months ago. I believe in vaccines. But I’m not ready for this one yet. When it has gone through the same FDA approval process as would be used for any vaccine I will be first in line. I don’t see why people are so offended…

It did go through the same FDA approval process as any vaccine. Full scale clinical trials then FDA review of the results. Getting an EUA means it skipped the normal months-long wait for the FDA to review it, not that it wasn't fully tested. We also now have more safety data on these vaccines than most vaccines ever get, thanks to over 2 billion doses administered worldwide, starting over 6 months ago. There is no real basis in science/risk for your stance.

Re: Linus Torvalds: Get vaccinated. Stop believing the anti-vax lies

#106

Post by Baeocystin »

LatteLazy wrote: post #2

Unpopular opinion: watching people struggle and fail or just plain refuse to engage with covid (wear a mask, socially distance, get a vaccine) has really shaken my faith in democracy. I was worried after Trumps election in 2016. But it's not a one-off phenomenon. People just behave randomly, they don't calculate risk, they don't care about facts, they're not even able to be self interested as far as I can tell. Just…

For what it's worth, you aren't alone.

Democracy is inherently fragile; it only succeeds when you have a well-educated electorate interested in the good of the country as a whole, and a large enough percentage of the population with enough wealth that such things are maintainable.

Unfortunately for us in the states, the past several decades have been ones of increasing partisan bickering, and a loss of a collective sense of civic duty.

Median incomes have not kept up with the cost of living for close to 50 years, now, putting the squeeze on even having enough time to think about these things.

The zeitgeist on the internet isn't helping, and I think Sort by Controversial ( https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/10/30/sort-by-controversial/ ) is less fictional by the day.

These things are all bad news. That doesn't mean we're doomed, and I'm not fatalistic. There are lots of people who care, too.

And there is a lot of work to be done to shore up the foundations of our country. When I was younger, I lived in countries that did not have a functional civic apparatus. I do not want to see that here.

Re: Linus Torvalds: Get vaccinated. Stop believing the anti-vax lies

#107

Post by systemvoltage »

vacjrj wrote: post #77
63 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As always though, it's not about you, it's about the people around you and the people around them. If we all acted selfishly all the time we'd all die.

What is more moral: - Asking the tiny fraction of the population who are immunocompromised to remain locked down until the safety of vaccines has been empirically verified? - Or asking healthy humans to take an experimental vaccine with no recourse should they suffer adverse effects?

- Or ask people over 50 to remain in a lockdown instead of putting millions of people out of jobs due to the shutdowns

Re: Linus Torvalds: Get vaccinated. Stop believing the anti-vax lies

#108

Post by lamontcg »

vacjrj wrote: post #54
apatheticonion wrote: post #32

I'm genuinely shocked at how many of my colleagues are in the anti-vaxx club. Literally half of my team have said they will not get the vaccine when it's available to them. One citing a podcast which talked about how the vaccine causes programmed cell death and the other because "it's all a bit suspicious". Great guys, intelligent and generally good to be around. I didn't know how to react when I found out.

99.97% survival rate for our demographic. When we can sue should we suffer an adverse reaction, then the cost-benefit analysis may even out. Right now, it’s all but downside.

the risks of vaccination are basically zero for everyone regardless of age group.

and the hospitalization rate of catching the virus are much higher than the death rate for 20 year olds. death rates drop off halving roughly every 8 years. hospitalization rates only half roughly every 16 years. so as a 20 year old you run ~1/200th of the risk of death as an 80 year, but you run 1/13th the risk of hospitalization compared to an 80 year old. that is still very non-zero.

there's literally no downside for any age group to getting the vaccination. even with 12-18 year old kids the risk of hospitalization and MIS-C is around 1-in-12,000 and the rate of side effects from the vaccines are much lower.

not to mention that we don't know how often the real virus triggers things like type 1 diabetes in kids and things that they'll carry around for the rest of their lives (which we expect to happen because other viruses cause them, and SARS-CoV-2 against completely naive immune system with no inherited T-cells is almost certain to be worse).

Re: Linus Torvalds: Get vaccinated. Stop believing the anti-vax lies

#109

Post by siloamx »

Dear Linus, you're not a doctor. Coronaviruses are known from about 70-ties. They cause about 40‰ illness cases similar to flu. It is a known fact. It is also known fact they can easily attack their previous host too. That's why no coronavirus vaccines were injected since 70-ties. Technology barrier was not the issuse. There were also no vacciness during SARS and MERS. It is also known fact that about 80% of people has no signs of illness after the contact with the virus. Don't panic. Stop spread the propaganda. Vaccination won't stop spreading the virus. Peope are not the only host for Sars-Cov-2. Go back to school.

Re: Linus Torvalds: Get vaccinated. Stop believing the anti-vax lies

#110

Post by vacjrj »

stevewodil wrote: post #100
vacjrj wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is more moral: - Asking the tiny fraction of the population who are immunocompromised to remain locked down until the safety of vaccines has been empirically verified? - Or asking healthy humans to take an experimental vaccine with no recourse should they suffer adverse effects?

Viruses mutate. Healthy humans won't stay healthy forever. The vaccines are not experimental. The moral thing to do is protect idiots from their own stupidity because we value their lives still, but recently I'm questioning that.

> The vaccines are not experimental

Then why can’t I sue should I have an adverse effect?

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