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Heart inflammation cases in young men higher than expected after mRNA vaccines

reuters.com

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Re: Heart inflammation cases in young men higher than expected after mRNA vaccines

#181

Post by bena »

nicoburns wrote: post #113
mrfusion wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

COVID induced myocarditis has been thoroughly disproven: https://www.statnews.com/2021/05/14/setting-the-record-strai...

Based on my personal experience, I'm pretty skeptical of this. I'm 28, healthy (or was previously), and have never previously had any issues with my heart. Got covid last April which came with quite sharp heart pain which seemed to match up very well to descriptions of myocarditis on and off for about 6 months. And I'm only just now getting to the point now where a raised heart beat isn't painful. You might say it's…

Never previously had any issues with your heart... that you were aware of.

Heart issues can go unnoticed until the day you drop dead.

Re: Heart inflammation cases in young men higher than expected after mRNA vaccines

#182

Post by skwb »

"cardiac MRI which is not always widely available". This is mainly because the views of the heart are super hard to get (exams are done mostly at specialized centers like Stanford)!

I actually ended up doing my PhD on automating the cardiac view planes using deep learning.

Re: Heart inflammation cases in young men higher than expected after mRNA vaccines

#183

Post by EMM_386 »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #139
EMM_386 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The human heart has a lot of ACE2 receptors, which is what Covid binds to. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7239191/ I wonder if you can get myocarditits both from exposure and the vaccine. Covid is in your heart tissue, triggering an immune response. When you get the vaccine, your immune system is going to ramp up even further to deal with this Covid in your heart. This would only affect people who had p…

Wonder if this will lead to an increase in pericarditis over the next couple of years. I had pericarditis when I was a teen. The explanation from the cardiologist, which probably was dumbed down for me, was that sometimes a foreign body like bacteria or a virus gets hidden in the lining of the heart and when it later gets exposed to the immune system, it causes the pericardium to get enflamed, which squeezes the hear…

> How long do spike proteins (SARS-CoV-2 or vaccine created) hang out if they make it to the heart?

As far as I understand it, the vaccine doesn't work like this. It tells your immune system "hey this is what a SARS-CoV-2 spike protein looks like, attack it if you see it".

So the vaccine wouldn't cause the heart damage, the vaccine does (intentionally) ramp up your immune system to learn about this new threat, which it will then attack. It doesn't bind to ACE2, it teaches your immune system to look for bad things that can.

If there is still Covid in your heart due to prior exposure, your immune system is going to go there to assist. This would cause inflammation, but intentionally. As you noted, this immune system response is correct behavior.

So that's a long way of saying the inflammation is from the virus, not the vaccine. That's why I was thinking this may only occur in vaccinated individuals who had prior exposure to Covid.

Re: Heart inflammation cases in young men higher than expected after mRNA vaccines

#184

Post by arriu »

arriu wrote: post #149

Has anyone looked at whether the mental stress or anxiety induced by putting someone through the process of getting the shot could be maybe be a reason for triggering this? Not the vaccine itself, but the whole routine of line up, answer questions about allergies and other risk factors, then waiting to get the shot, then having to sit there waiting for symptoms to show up... Not to mention people don't like needles e…

What's up with the down votes...

It is a legitimate question. People get heart inflammation from things like court visits.

If you know something then please share.

Re: Heart inflammation cases in young men higher than expected after mRNA vaccines

#185

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

nicoburns wrote: post #121
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the Pfizer vaccine doesn't contain any of the virus, unless it's just the immune reaction to the spike protein that causes the problem?

> unless it's just the immune reaction to the spike protein that causes the problem? If the problem is inflammation then that seems entirely plausible... I thought that an immune response was exactly what inflammation is

But then it would be caused by untold number of things and not marked out as special.

Re: Heart inflammation cases in young men higher than expected after mRNA vaccines

#186

Post by AndrewBissell »

The response to this, of course, will be "well the risks of the virus are still higher than those of the vaccine so you should still get it," but I think that misses an important point here. In the absence of long-term safety data on these vaccines, we have engaged in a priori deduction instead: "there's no known mechanism by which mRNA could cause any complications, so it should be fine." The appearance of any significantly higher than expected rate of complications potentially calls that reasoning into question.

Re: Heart inflammation cases in young men higher than expected after mRNA vaccines

#187

Post by thenaturalist »

eckesicle wrote: post #138
Kognito wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the article, an interesting read for sure. It’s nice to see there’s been plenty of follow-up study on this. Respectfully, you’re wrong to say “thoroughly disproven”. Even the article ends with the suggestion that it’s a side-effect of covid, albeit a rare one. The article’s position is more that it was overblown to worry about stopping young athletes from competing for fear of myo being a common side-effec…

My wife died from myocarditis 2 months ago. The only thing she tested positive for was COVID. The coroner's report however, was quite clear that COVID did not cause her death or the myocarditis and that there has been no such reported case anywhere in the world. If anyone has information to dispute that I would be very interested to see it. Thanks

I am sorry for your loss. May her memory be a blessing.

Re: Heart inflammation cases in young men higher than expected after mRNA vaccines

#188

Post by rolph »

motohagiography wrote: post #136
lame-robot-hoax wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but the route in which a vaccination takes place (IM injection into deltoid) should mean that much much less of the spike protein ends up in the heart and lungs vs a natural infection. As well, the overall amount of spike protein in the body will be less. https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2021/05/04/sp... “Consider what happens when you’re infected by the actual coronavirus. We know now that the hug…

Does that imply that the difference in hitting a vein with the injection vs. staying intramuscular would be where in the body the protein travels to and causes an immune response? Nothing is ever that simple, but of cases with effects consistent with the protein being in the blood stream with consequences to the heart and brain, if that were a factor, it would be both testable and avoidable, and provide the explanati…

expect immediate and catastrophic thromboembolism upon IV administration of any current covid vaccine none of them are formulated for IV administration

https://portal.ct.gov/-/media/Coronavirus/Community_Resource...

Re: Heart inflammation cases in young men higher than expected after mRNA vaccines

#189

Post by Fomite »

sbierwagen wrote: post #13
DennisP wrote: post #2

It'd be nice if they mentioned how many cases there were, compared to number of shots.

They link to the CDC slide deck. Slide 14: https://www.fda.gov/media/150054/download 488 total reports from Pfizer-BioNTech, 301 reports from Moderna. Slide 18 shows proportions. 12,169,692 doses administered. Expected number (base rate) of Myocarditis/pericarditis cases in persons under 25, 10 to 103. Cases observed: 277. So it roughly quadrupled the base rate. Which brings the adverse reaction rate up to... 0.00027…

The debate between presenting absolute vs. relative rates is a really interesting one in epidemiology, for the record, with roots spanning everything from "absolute risk regression models are actually kind of tricky" to the early arguments about smoking and lung cancer, casual criteria, and R.A. Fisher being on the wrong side of history.
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