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Software is eating the car

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Re: Software is eating the car

#311

Post by ggreer »

bob1029 wrote: post #202
sharkweek wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would prefer a car that is almost entirely mechanical because mechanics make way more sense to me than software. The old crusty mechanic I take my 20+ year old 4Runner to for service complains about this a lot. Cars don’t make nearly as much sense to him as they used to. Just to be clear, I appreciate improved safety that technology brings to cars, and I know I can’t have it both ways.

The biggest thing for me is user input latency. It doesnt matter if its a computer, a microwave, or a car. I want to feel like the machine is not a lazy piece of shit and actually wants to help me. I know it sounds like a pedantic annoyance, but that little bit of step-wise discrete behavior I get out of my electronic throttle body right at the threshold of activation is one of the most infuriating things about ownin…

Are you sure that's not something else like inertia in various mechanical parts or engine tuning? Maybe it sacrifices responsiveness at low RPM for better emissions or better performance at high revs. There's certainly no need for the software side of things to be laggy or discrete.

Also have you tried an electric car? You might be impressed. EVs may have more software, but they don't have nearly as many physical constraints on responsiveness. They don't have to wait for an engine to suck in more air. They don't have to overcome the inertia of pistons and rods and flywheels and clutch discs and long driveshafts. It's just instant torque. Compared to my Model 3, every internal combustion vehicle feels like it has turbo lag.

Re: Software is eating the car

#312

Post by TeeMassive »

liquidise wrote: post #271
jacquesm wrote: post #181

Nothing worse than automotive software. Buggy, slow, terrible user interfaces, outright dangerous and in many ways much worse than the systems they replace or augment. The automotive industry has a long long way to come - assuming it will happen at all - before they can be said to be responsible software vendors. Case in point: my - former - C class Mercedes that made two pretty good attempts to kill me by slamming o…

I’ll pile on with my own anecdote. Last winter I flew home to Maine to visit family. Rented a ‘21 Nissan Altima. It drove well until there was typical New England snow/slush mix. While driving on a flat straight stretch of road the car suddenly... yanked itself sideways. Thank god no oncoming traffic was present and I was able to course correct safely. I immediately drove home and paid careful attention to the wheel…

> Bonus, it also has collision detection warnings on the side of the car. It was convinced every puddle I drove through that splashed slush beside the car was an object I was about to collide with.

That's the problem I have with people who tries to rethink our relationship with cars; it's obvious that they live a Californian lifestyle. "Just share your car" "Electric and solar is the way" "AI safety with cameras is a must"

Yeah, sure.

Re: Software is eating the car

#313

Post by reader_mode »

I got the feeling that car companies treat SW like a cost center, asses in seats kind of mentality. They don't pay well, you work on uninteresting stuff and corporate ladder is likely a dead end.

So I doubt they (traditional car companies) are going to get better at software any time soon.

Re: Software is eating the car

#314

Post by dalbasal »

iso1210 wrote: post #171

I have to admit I was unnerved the first time I got in a car with an electronic hand brake - certainly something I would not want if I were buying a car. Especially as there was a "Microsoft" logo next to it (presumably for the terrible in car entertainment system which was touch screen only) The encroaching of software into cars does remind me of the old joke though. At a recent computer expo (COMDEX), Bill Gates re…

5 & 10 are already here... the rest aren't far.

Re: Software is eating the car

#315

Post by _jal »

Judgmentality wrote: post #266
_jal wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not. I work with lots of them. I think we're talking about two different things. Yes, the RIAA was running an intimidation campaign. By and large they didn't care about any particular case. That's quite different than a plaintiff coming at a car manufacturer over sketchy click-wrap agreements.

Your comment was about lawyers. I gave a random anecdote. We're not talking about different things at all, unless your comment was only about specific lawyers which you failed to mention. Anyway, I don't care enough to comment anymore.

I'll remember not to care to reply in the first place.

Re: Software is eating the car

#316

Post by aidenn0 »

waiseristy wrote: post #299
aidenn0 wrote: post #246

What worries me the most is the usage of flash storage backing huge swaths of the functionality in the car. I suspect 10 years from now we will have cars where everything between the dashboard and glove-box does not work because the flash has worn out.

Luckily the only dynamic part of most of these ECU's are their diagnostics and logging mechanisms, nowhere near "huge swaths of functionality". Every other bit of flash is written once at the factory and is never touched again. Now that we are seeing widespread adoption of OTA, it'll increase the amount of writes to program flash maybe 100 times over the life of the vehicle, but still within reasonable bounds. The is…

Many cars use eMMC to back the infotainment system.

Recent non-tesla rentals I've driven have definitely had functionality that could only be accessed through the touch-screen. e.g. a Chrysler my mom rented a couple weeks ago had just temperature and fan control on knobs; everything else for climate was touch-screen only. What happens when the eMMC gives up the ghost in this car? I don't know, but I suspect you won't be able to e.g. manually put the defogger on...

Re: Software is eating the car

#317

Post by _ea1k »

abawany wrote: post #235
_ea1k wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like in the old days, Mazda would have been the one to introduce a Maverick sized truck, and they likely would have been leading the way with electric. Its too bad that the Ford partnership fell apart.

Ford has chosen to grant your wish: https://www.ford.com/trucks/maverick/2022/ - a real compact pickup with hybrid technology available at the base price of $20k.

That was the vehicle I was referencing. I was saying that this vehicle would have been a joint effort if the partnership were still alive. I could see Mazda owning the small EV segment for Ford too.

Re: Software is eating the car

#318

Post by beckingz »

iso1210 wrote: post #171

I have to admit I was unnerved the first time I got in a car with an electronic hand brake - certainly something I would not want if I were buying a car. Especially as there was a "Microsoft" logo next to it (presumably for the terrible in car entertainment system which was touch screen only) The encroaching of software into cars does remind me of the old joke though. At a recent computer expo (COMDEX), Bill Gates re…

That last one is true for most cars now...

Re: Software is eating the car

#319

Post by drdavid »

nradov wrote: post #172
bozzcl wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding HUDs... it's the one feature I desperately want for my next car. I've been looking into aftermarket options, but all of them are ridiculously cheap and bad or vaporware.

GM had HUDs in many vehicles 20 years ago. It's a shame they aren't more widely available.

I purchased a new C8 to add to the collection until my granddaughter is old enough to drive. The HUD is very, very good. I'm not sure how they managed on such a sharp windshield, but it's crisp and clear even in the brightest of conditions.

With them making so many things mandatory these days, I'd not be surprised to see them making HUD mandatory. It absolutely is easier and faster to read then just looking down. It may only be measured in milliseconds, but it's definitely faster.

Re: Software is eating the car

#320

Post by jjav »

jonplackett wrote: post #74
jonpurdy wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently bought a used 2016 Spark EV (having a baby and needed something other than my motorbike). It does have a touchscreen, but mostly for extraneous information and radio functions. Everything else has dedicated knobs and buttons. (The one dumb thing is that the fan speed updates on the screen, rather than just having ticks above the knob.) It is a California "compliance car", which means it was just a modified…

This is the exact same stupid thing that happened with DSLR cameras. Old SLR cameras had a ring around the lens for f-stop and another dial on top for shutter speed. New DSLR cameras even now hide all that stuff in a menu on the touch screen, as if it isn't something you want to change ALL THE TIME - and develop instant muscle memory for.

> New DSLR cameras even now hide all that stuff in a menu on the touch screen

Don't approximately all DSLR have separate physical knobs for aperture and shutter speed?

Agreed that a DSLR without these would be nearly useless.

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