What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour • Hacker News Board

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#621

Post by adolph » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 8:09 PM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #507

geonic wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an interesting question. I bought the car. Ownership transferred to me. What if I decide to rewire some of the electronics and unlock heated seats or some other paid extra?

I imagine they will make an argument that while you own the hardware, you are breaking the terms and conditions of their software. You never paid them to unlock the heated seats in software. Of course that argument fails if you get it modded so there's an extra button on the side and it just provides power to the seats, bypassing the rest of the system. It's going to be a fun legislative challenge once someone inevit…

Then the next lines of defence will be warrantee negation, OEM parts locking, sensor/actuator distribution (like seat-thermo tied to airbag weight sensor), safety regulation either directly or through failed inspection scams.

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#622

Post by mlyle » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 8:15 PM UTC

lm28469 wrote: post #286

mlyle wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla's status on this is really controversial. Some people think that Tesla's sheer data advantage will put them way ahead soon and that it's imminent. On the other hand, Waymo is doing pretty well on most trips (admittedly within a small geofenced zone that has friendly weather -- you can watch oodles of video from jjricks on real trips here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61AfxOMu3wY )

> Waymo Even they admitted fully autonomous vehicles most likely won't be a thing any time soon (maybe ever if we keep our current infrastructure) https://www.cnet.com/news/alphabet-google-waymo-ceo-john-kra...

I feel like this was misread. The statement appears to say that he doesn't think they will completely displace manual driving of cars for considerable time. And that SAE level 5 arguably expects more than we expect from human drivers (many of us would not be safe driving in whiteout conditions on a windy mountain road).

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#623

Post by adolph » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 8:16 PM UTC

yardie wrote: post #444

jtbayly wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because he doesn’t lose anything, but has the possibility of gaining something.

He's definitely losing something. Property taxes are based on area and number of rooms. They could have found a tenant looking for the right number of rooms in their budget.

Unused capacity might be claimed as a business loss?

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#624

Post by dillondoyle » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 8:17 PM UTC

Jemm wrote: post #582

Never in a million years am I going to pay a subscription to use my own vehicle. Sad thing is that people will and it will become mainstream leaving those like me driving our old clunkers. Already kind of happening now, most people happy to buy cars with no dip stick for the oil, no spare tire and mostly unrepairable except by the dealer. The rest of us are out in our old Toyotas and Hondas that we are keeping alive…

If I bought it flat out F no. I could see some ideas around a newer type of lease though for those who truly don't drive a lot. Leases already have built in mile caps, maybe doing a micro-level like this proposed hour could be reasonable to some. So long as it's a transparent choice.

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#625

Post by ksd482 » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 8:18 PM UTC

ericmay wrote: post #579

I'll never understand why we're hell-bent on making sure people are driving around in cars. Instead of solving the problem of commuting by not having cars and by building better, we're just making commuting better and more optimized. It's so stupid. We should be making it so that you don't have to commute, not that you can do more work while you commute or w/e.

People have already mentioned various reasons why owning a car is personal. So this means there is more incentive for companies to build cars -- more profit to be made.

Public transport on the other hand, is a massive undertaking which involves a lot of politics. So it is not nearly as profitably or incentivized.

I would personally like to see public transportation improved over cars, but I may be in the minority like you.

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#626

Post by lazerpants » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 8:22 PM UTC

ericmay wrote: post #614

lazerpants wrote: post #610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My work brings me into contact with many high net worth individuals in Manhattan. They all take cars most of the time. It is faster than the subway, usually, and even when it isn't you can get more done in the car. Even in the U.S.' most dense area driving is usually faster, and it is certainly more pleasant/productive. Edit: I'll note that many of them will take the subway during rush hour if both ends of the trip a…

Ok ok so now walk me through what this looks like if everybody in Manhattan takes a car.

Turns into a nightmare of course. But it's gated by how much you can afford to pay. The new congestion charges will really be a boon to the ultra-wealthy since the charges are minuscule compared to what they are willing to pay and it will get poorer drivers off the streets.

I would prefer it if the congestion charges were scaled to usage rates for that reason (example, you can enter the toll zone once per month for free, but if you do it 20 times the toll eventually ends up being $100+ per journey). It seems more fair to me especially since a lot of people occasionally need to haul a box or something to Midtown, but don't usually contribute to traffic congestion.

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#627

Post by skylanh » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 8:24 PM UTC

ericmay wrote: post #597

kuratkull wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Driving is faster, your car is available virtually 24/7, you own(many animals like owning things) your car, you can personalize your car - in short, cars are personal, commuting is public. Also time is money.

> Driving is faster It's not, if you build correctly. It's only "faster" when you spread things out into suburbia. Is it faster for you to get in your car and drive next door or to just walk over there? Of course its faster to walk. Walking is faster. You can't just say "driving is faster" without qualifications. > your car is available virtually 24/7 So are your legs. Walk and bike. I don't see the relevance of many…

I think it's interesting that you have a somewhat valid point for a few use cases, but are quite myopic to the different users.

If I add in:

- I have children

- Temperatures range from -15C to +5C to -15C on the same day, and same outing

=> I need to pack backup clothing for the children in case they get wet in the +5 weather, and backup snow winter clothing for when it's -15 and they get wet.

=> We aren't talking niceties, a 25kg child exposed to sub zero weather in wet clothing will approach hypothermia and other detrimental conditions quickly.

If I add in:

- physical limitation including breathing (reliant on oxygen), exercise intolerance, amputation, pregnancy, pregnancy induced physical limitations, broken limbs, nerve damage, inner ear disorders due to concussion or older age

=> "So are your legs. Walk and bike." becomes... well, I hope you see.

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#628

Post by BluePen8 » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 8:29 PM UTC

Jemm wrote: post #582

Never in a million years am I going to pay a subscription to use my own vehicle. Sad thing is that people will and it will become mainstream leaving those like me driving our old clunkers. Already kind of happening now, most people happy to buy cars with no dip stick for the oil, no spare tire and mostly unrepairable except by the dealer. The rest of us are out in our old Toyotas and Hondas that we are keeping alive…

The missing spare tire was really just a gimmick to game some EPA mileage metric. Many cars missing them still have the spot for them, and it can even be purchased from the dealership (marked up as usual).

Thankfully the oil sensor was one of the few things that didn't fail on my BMW, but ironically my Lexus is the car that actually burns oil so I'm standing out there once every 1000 miles with paper towel wiping my dipstick. Wish we could have both.

I also agree I'd never pay for this subscription (unless I'm drunk and it's legally allowed to drive itself), but I'm probably just going to avoid subscription based vehicles like I already do (like BMWs with their annual CarPlay subscription).

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#629

Post by joe463369 » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 8:32 PM UTC

Jemm wrote: post #582

Never in a million years am I going to pay a subscription to use my own vehicle. Sad thing is that people will and it will become mainstream leaving those like me driving our old clunkers. Already kind of happening now, most people happy to buy cars with no dip stick for the oil, no spare tire and mostly unrepairable except by the dealer. The rest of us are out in our old Toyotas and Hondas that we are keeping alive…

With Volkswagen's "under consideration" plan for their - as yet unavailable - self-driving package, you don't have to pay them to use your own vehicle. You can drive it all you want. However, if you're feeling tired or you've had a drink with colleagues after work, you can pay 7 euro an hour to have your car take you home.

You already have the choice between buying a car outright or taking out a lease. If the unfortunate happens and you can't afford to keep up with the payments on your car, then at some point you're going to have your access to it removed. Maybe not as quickly or as sarcastically as in Ubik, but it will happen.

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#630

Post by BluePen8 » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 8:39 PM UTC

moftz wrote: post #587

gimmeThaBeet wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bit off topic, and pardon my asking, I'm genuinely a bit fascinated to know how you came to buy what seems to be quite a specific vehicle, with the expectation that you would hate it? If it was just cost and utility (i.e. "yeah it sucks, but I can do x,y,z.. with it") I suppose that makes sense, and I'm glad it turns out you enjoy it. It just seems like 4Runners specifically have quite an enthusiastic following, I'…

Not everyone buys an old 4x4 to go up and down muddy hills. Some people just want to be able to get to work in inclement weather but don't want to buy new or need to spend a lot on parts. If an old 4runner was the only thing in my price range for a 4x4 daily driver, I'd probably be a little disappointed too.

I guess the weird part is as he mentioned the enthusiastic following. That makes them actually in a higher price class of their own for what you get.

As a Toyota enthusiast, even I couldn't stomach the prices being asked, and I actually wanted one. But I wasn't going far enough from civilization to justify that premium for reliability.

I'd say a used 4Runner is by far the least cost effective choices to deal with inclimate weather, so it seems strange how someone paid top dollar for a vehicle they didn't want. It's like buying a Gucci shirt you don't want.