Software is eating the car • Hacker News Board

Re: Software is eating the car

#51

Post by LinuxBender » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 5:22 PM UTC

e40 wrote: post #36

LinuxBender wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm with you. I will not buy a vehicle of any kind that is sending telemetry or tracking without my express written consent. This includes ICE cars made after 2018 that may have ODB3 and send GPS, emission, speed and other data to 3rd parties. I accept that I will be paying a premium to keep older vehicles running. I am about to donate my old truck to a charity and will get a less old truck after I leave California.

> This includes ICE cars made after 2018 that have ODB3 and send GPS, emission, speed and other data to 3rd parties. I googled for this and could find no info. Please give a reference for this claim.

In fact all the links to forums discussing this appear to have been wiped from Google and Bing. Perhaps this topic is off limits for now. I can still find the older articles talking about privacy concerns, but the forums where people were explaining how to disable it have vanished.

Re: Software is eating the car

#52

Post by mardifoufs » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 5:23 PM UTC

e40 wrote: post #36

LinuxBender wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm with you. I will not buy a vehicle of any kind that is sending telemetry or tracking without my express written consent. This includes ICE cars made after 2018 that may have ODB3 and send GPS, emission, speed and other data to 3rd parties. I accept that I will be paying a premium to keep older vehicles running. I am about to donate my old truck to a charity and will get a less old truck after I leave California.

> This includes ICE cars made after 2018 that have ODB3 and send GPS, emission, speed and other data to 3rd parties. I googled for this and could find no info. Please give a reference for this claim.

> > This includes ICE cars made after 2018 that have ODB3 and send GPS, emission, speed and other data to 3rd parties.

> I googled for this and could find no info. Please give a reference for this claim.

I can't even seem to find any reference to odb 3 existing at all in the first place. So yeah any link would be very much appreciated

Re: Software is eating the car

#53

Post by andrewmcwatters » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 5:25 PM UTC

fighterpilot wrote: post #45

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #32

Maybe not a "dumb" car, but yes, I would like to see more good analog options if the digital alternative is getting screens in cars that look utterly embarrassing compared to yesteryear's netbook-sized screen fad. If you're going to put tech in my car, you better go all the way. I'm talking a huge screen, fast multicore processor or redundant systems, touchscreen to UI update response times under 5ms. None of this no…

Is there an established word for the chronic build up in annoyance of waiting a few hundred ms each time you click something on a smart phone or computer?

Yeah. It drives me nuts that in tech we pay more attention to processing power over things like response times and latency.

Who cares if you have hardware that’s 15% more powerful than last year if nothing has moved meaningfully in my actual experience.

Re: Software is eating the car

#54

Post by fighterpilot » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 5:32 PM UTC

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #53

fighterpilot wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there an established word for the chronic build up in annoyance of waiting a few hundred ms each time you click something on a smart phone or computer?

Yeah. It drives me nuts that in tech we pay more attention to processing power over things like response times and latency. Who cares if you have hardware that’s 15% more powerful than last year if nothing has moved meaningfully in my actual experience.

It's why I prefer desktop/local software whenever it's available and whenever it's something I need to be using often. Cloud software is usually noticeably slower.

Latency should be a UX priority.

Re: Software is eating the car

#55

Post by wsinks » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 5:37 PM UTC

galangalalgol wrote: post #29

ArkanExplorer wrote: post #4

It seems that 'hardware' is eating the car, too. I want to just buy a small, slow, simple EV for picking up groceries and other city errands, for $5k-$10k. It seems like the only companies making that are the Chinese, and usually only selling them in China. Heck, it doesn't even need an Infotainment system - just bluetooth for audio and calls, USB-A charger port and phone cradle.

A few people in my neighborhood have golf carts, not sure how its legal but the police don't bother them.

If you're california, it's legal as long as they don't drive on a street with a speed limit over 35 mph

https://codes.findlaw.com/ca/vehicle-code/veh-sect-21260.htm...

TTG, 5 seconds ;)

Re: Software is eating the car

#56

Post by quacked » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 5:42 PM UTC

mthomasmw wrote: post #43

quacked wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there are any. If you got to the point where you somehow managed to source the labor, materials, and space to manufacture "dumb technology", you'd be sued into oblivion by competitors who wouldn't want you to eat into their profit margins. I think the market is huge. Imagine a company that suddenly started selling all-metal consumer appliances with minimal functionality, controlled by old-fashioned swit…

Vitamix

Looks great. It reminds me of my microwave, which has two dials on it and is better than every other microwave I've ever owned.

Re: Software is eating the car

#57

Post by Shadonototro » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 5:52 PM UTC

the problem will be bad developers who write bad code that results in need of more powerful and powerhungry chips wich results in chip shortage

the curse of the tech-age is capitalism needing cheap labor, wich results in stupid choices being made

we seen this during the Web 2.0 era, bad/cheap programmers made everything slow, sluggish and resource hungry, bad code, always bad code

it still continues today

Re: Software is eating the car

#58

Post by olivermarks » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 5:54 PM UTC

SavantIdiot wrote: post #3

Short answer to the lede: no, the industry cannot cope. Or rather, it will limp along with bloatware, bugs, and malware exactly the same way we see desktop OSes bloat, or the way we see routers and set-top boxes hacked to become botnets. In my 40+ years in the industry I've yet to see code get SMALLER. With the exception of Linux kernel 1.0 in the 90's which was a step backwards into smaller, more compact code, code…

https://www.evwest.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=40 - convert a sturdy long lasting pre connectivity/phone home car as asap while you still can!

Re: Software is eating the car

#59

Post by arminiusreturns » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 5:57 PM UTC

paganel wrote: post #22

mthomasmw wrote: post #6

Serious question - what alternatives are left for those of us who want a dumb car? I've spent the last three months finding out I can't get solar panels installed without a high-fidelity power-monitor tap connected to the provider's cloud, logging every appliance I use and what it's doing. Same deal with cars - they are on the internet and they generate evidence used to convict, and geofencing is coming. Other than s…

I found the latest model of the Suzuki Jimny the closest to what you described, that is when it comes to new cars. Unfortunately it has been withdrawn from the European market (where I live) because it doesn’t meet environmental standards, hopes are that it will be re-introduced labeled as a “utility” vehicle. Afaik it is selling like hot-cakes on the markets where it is still present (like Australia), maybe if enoug…

Speaking of Suzuki, the Samurai is ripe for a comeback in the US imho.

Re: Software is eating the car

#60

Post by Buttons840 » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 5:58 PM UTC

vannevar wrote: post #7

SavantIdiot wrote: post #3

Short answer to the lede: no, the industry cannot cope. Or rather, it will limp along with bloatware, bugs, and malware exactly the same way we see desktop OSes bloat, or the way we see routers and set-top boxes hacked to become botnets. In my 40+ years in the industry I've yet to see code get SMALLER. With the exception of Linux kernel 1.0 in the 90's which was a step backwards into smaller, more compact code, code…

Glad to hear I'm not the only one who wants a dumb car. Unfortunately, the idea of electric cars has become bound up with the notion of software-driven cars. I want an electric car with analog controls, no touch screens or over-the-air updates, and minimal software. A car that I feel like I own, rather than one I'm getting a click-through license to use.

You know the dark pattern of presenting a license agreement over and over until it's accepted? I predict one day someone will make the argument in court that they always declined the EULA (perhaps the one in their car) hundreds of times, but one day accidentally brushed "accept" with their finger, and that doesn't constitute legal acceptance, especially since they've demonstrated an effort to decline the EULA, but because of dark patterns, they never can permanently reject the license.