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Drug users use a lot of drugs

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Re: Drug users use a lot of drugs

#141

Post by tannedNerd »

eurasiantiger wrote: post #121
m-ee wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless this is a regional thing I wonder where the doctor even got that idea, I wasn't even aware people snort meth until now. Meanwhile I walked past two people lighting up after leaving a job interview in soma last week. Any doctor who's worked in the ER or psych ward in SF would be familiar with how its used, meth induced psychosis is very common around here.

No such thing as meth-induced psychosis. Yes, people might appear psychotic while under the influence, but that is not psychosis in the clinical sense. The few that do lose their rationality lose it because they don’t sleep for weeks. They likely also live in an unsafe environment which keeps them in a perpetual state of survival stress. Survival stress + not sleeping + stimulants —> psychosis. Very rarely any of the…

I’m not going to say you been in SF but you clearly haven’t walked through the tenderloin and probably not spent a lot of time around people that partake in harder drugs on regular basis. Yes it doesn’t match the clinical description, but that’s because the clinical description wasn’t written by someone who works in the heavily drug ridden areas. More likely by someone who probably only dealt with hard drug users once or twice on their ED rotation during residency

Re: Drug users use a lot of drugs

#142

Post by mxxc »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #140
mxxc wrote: post #133

hooray another article that focuses on the heavy tail of severe addiction and generalises it to the general public who uses drugs. humanity really needed this!

You know, I thought it was going that way when I started reading it - but by the end, I really didn't feel like you do. But realistically, it compared dosages of drugs in heavy users compared to regular use at medical doses and the side effects of them. It never stated these were normal users, just stating the things that happen with a lot of use. I was surprised. Sure, it could have went on to say that occasional re…

the title says "drug users use a lot of drugs". either it's shamelessly clickbaiting or it's what the author thinks. we move to the ketamine section, again, "two studies on users". one clicks on the chinese one and the word "chronic" is in the title. the study focuses on them only. the english one is on "addiction research" but the study is more complex than this dude's summary. he says that "both find that they [the users] take about 90mg". this is, of course, not what the UK paper says, as one can check in the paper.

and to your point: some places have draconian laws about possession of MA in the same amounts that get prescribed in the US. if i were from thailand i would argue that this person is shamelessly drugging his patients.

there is nothing wrong with telling the truth about occasional recreational use, and yes, "drug addicts use a lot of drugs". that's a necessary condition for "addiction".

Re: Drug users use a lot of drugs

#143

Post by sharken »

newbie789 wrote: post #103
emptysongglass wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel bad for the guy who got ostracized by you and your entire friend group because he occasionally did speed and admitted to it. I understand your situation but I also think at some point you need to be able to stand on your own two feet without taking such drastic measures. Strength is both being able to walk away and then to say no in the face of temptation. I say this as someone who abused drugs when I was youn…

That’s a great point of view and in retrospect, so do I. It wasn’t a great thing to do and I’d probably had a more humane way of eliminating a friend. I just did what I could at the time.

I understand perfectly well why you did what you did, as others here point out you have to take care of yourself before you can help others.

And thanks for sharing and giving some great answers.

Re: Drug users use a lot of drugs

#144

Post by herbst »

cwkoss wrote: post #119
stordoff wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> i have a morbid fascination with the 'frontier non-medical drug use' communities I share this interest. I've very little interest in using drugs recreationally myself, but find reading about it oddly fascinating, particularly the novel agents. Taking a chemical when you only have the vaguest idea of what it _may_ do crosses a line I would never want to, but I sympathise with the feeling of wanting to know the effec…

Well, to share some of my favorite morbid findings: --- Melanotan is a peptide that increases skin pigmentation. Some people have tested it to the extreme, and the pictures are some combination of funny, terrifying and "at what point is this racially offensive blackface?". Also supposedly causes erections similarly to sildenafil . https://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/3gxjem/before_and_afte... --- The etizolam not wo…

When MDPV made rounds in my friends circle, and someone found interest in the substance it always ended in some kind of increasingly paranoid flash until some dramatic breakup 2-3 weeks later. Like one that took a train driving for hours out of the country getting increasingly paranoid until he found himself, phone and money somehow lost, on the trains toilet to flush down a lot of MDPV (literally thousands of doses) and then took weeks to recover from the substance. And even a few days until they found a way to get home.

I took it a few times and honestly enjoyed it, my world started to glitter basically, however I dosed carefully and never took a second hit.

Re: Drug users use a lot of drugs

#145

Post by kbmunchkin »

eurasiantiger wrote: post #121
m-ee wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless this is a regional thing I wonder where the doctor even got that idea, I wasn't even aware people snort meth until now. Meanwhile I walked past two people lighting up after leaving a job interview in soma last week. Any doctor who's worked in the ER or psych ward in SF would be familiar with how its used, meth induced psychosis is very common around here.

No such thing as meth-induced psychosis. Yes, people might appear psychotic while under the influence, but that is not psychosis in the clinical sense. The few that do lose their rationality lose it because they don’t sleep for weeks. They likely also live in an unsafe environment which keeps them in a perpetual state of survival stress. Survival stress + not sleeping + stimulants —> psychosis. Very rarely any of the…

It is meth induced because the meth keeps the person awake. You sound like someone who has not experienced it first hand.

Re: Drug users use a lot of drugs

#146

Post by anaisbetts »

sharken wrote: post #55
newbie789 wrote: post #32

Former meth addict here. > The average crystal meth addict uses about 500 mg a day. And they snort it, which probably produces about double the peak plasma level as taking it orally. So they're getting the equivalent of 1000 mg oral amphetamine daily... 500mg sounds about right, but from my experience the most common route of administration (in the western United States at least) is smoking, not snorting. Because so…

Must admit the specifics of doing drugs is not that interesting to me, it's more interesting to ask the question: How does someone stop doing drugs?

Psychological drug addiction feels a lot like food addiction - if you've ever dieted then thought about how amazing it would be to order pizza, you've experienced the same thing (though ofc to a far lesser magnitude)

You stop doing drugs the same way you stop eating badly, by trying to find substitutes, and by putting distance between you and it (i.e. if I don't want to eat snacks, I avoid buying it at the store, so it's more work for me to eat poorly)

Re: Drug users use a lot of drugs

#147

Post by type0 »

kbmunchkin wrote: post #145
eurasiantiger wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No such thing as meth-induced psychosis. Yes, people might appear psychotic while under the influence, but that is not psychosis in the clinical sense. The few that do lose their rationality lose it because they don’t sleep for weeks. They likely also live in an unsafe environment which keeps them in a perpetual state of survival stress. Survival stress + not sleeping + stimulants —> psychosis. Very rarely any of the…

It is meth induced because the meth keeps the person awake. You sound like someone who has not experienced it first hand.

Could just call it "meth induced paranoia hangover". How often is it persistent to be considered psychosis though?

Re: Drug users use a lot of drugs

#149

Post by kbmunchkin »

emptysongglass wrote: post #99
newbie789 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know exactly because I managed 0 possible access for a long time, so temptation was low. About a year after I quit, I made a new friend. He was a nice guy, seemed normal, but one day he casually mentioned that he occasionally used stimulants including amphetamines. I cut off all contact with him immediately (as did all of my close friends. It’s a good example of support in this case.) I guess I was able to re…

I feel bad for the guy who got ostracized by you and your entire friend group because he occasionally did speed and admitted to it. I understand your situation but I also think at some point you need to be able to stand on your own two feet without taking such drastic measures. Strength is both being able to walk away and then to say no in the face of temptation. I say this as someone who abused drugs when I was youn…

I don't feel bad for the guy. The last thing a recovering addict needs is a source for drugs and that's what he is.

Addicts can't just stop and never do drugs again like a normal person. If it's there, they'll take it. It's not about strength and being able to walk away. It never goes away for an addict and the best they can do is avoid situations where drugs will be presented. Isolation from users is the best course of action.

Also, many people abuse drugs and even become addicted, but are not addicts. An addict is wired differently.

Re: Drug users use a lot of drugs

#150

Post by Fnoord »

anon9001 wrote: post #120
newbie789 wrote: post #32

Former meth addict here. > The average crystal meth addict uses about 500 mg a day. And they snort it, which probably produces about double the peak plasma level as taking it orally. So they're getting the equivalent of 1000 mg oral amphetamine daily... 500mg sounds about right, but from my experience the most common route of administration (in the western United States at least) is smoking, not snorting. Because so…

Thanks for sharing. A lot of people on this board have experience with prescription stimulants. How would you say the experience of "doing meth" differs from taking amphetamine orally? Was a typical experience for you "smoke meth, study or write code all night"? I like prescription stimulants, but it's hard for me to imagine anyone wanting to take overdose-levels of stimulants for fun, so I'm probably missing somethi…

> If the supply chain for meth wasn't so poor, I'd probably try it once to see what all the hype is about.

As a former smoker and user of various drugs (mostly legal at the time), I highly recommend against usage of highly addictive drugs such as tobacco, heroin, cocaine, and also (meth)amphetamine (there's a difference between physically and mentally addiction here, and there's a good comparison of about 20 different drugs and their differences in dependency).

I recommend against recreational drug usage, too, but that's because I have come to the understanding they're not necessary, and it being dangerous not using drugs without supervision. You don't want those ups and downs (such as 'taking too much', or 'forgetting a dose'), you want stability. Seek help instead, get a diagnosis, and get prescription under supervision.

FWIW, I used amphetamine once, and have been prescribed on Ritalin. That one time I used amphetamine I felt like the biggest asshole in the world. I could finally understand macho men because I felt like one. However, unlike my first time MDMA, I can't say I missed out on it (and that is with only the first time MDMA). Whereas Ritalin, while spikey (no SR such as Concerta, sadly) provides stability if administered on regular intervals. Which can be solved nowadays with alarms on smartphone and such (back when I used it, smartphones were not yet widely in use).

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