Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Drug users use a lot of drugs

astralcodexten.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 198 posts

Re: Drug users use a lot of drugs

#101

Post by hypertele-Xii »

sharken wrote: post #55
newbie789 wrote: post #32

Former meth addict here. > The average crystal meth addict uses about 500 mg a day. And they snort it, which probably produces about double the peak plasma level as taking it orally. So they're getting the equivalent of 1000 mg oral amphetamine daily... 500mg sounds about right, but from my experience the most common route of administration (in the western United States at least) is smoking, not snorting. Because so…

Must admit the specifics of doing drugs is not that interesting to me, it's more interesting to ask the question: How does someone stop doing drugs?

There are two methods I know of. Either you stop doing the thing, or you do other things instead.

The first requires a presence of mind to enter the void left behind by the thing, that people doing drugs probably lack, since they are, in essence, stimulation addicts. Drugs fill a void they avoid facing. Stopping doing drugs would cause them to face that void.

The second is more amenable, because you can taper off with replacement therapy. Switch to using less bad drugs, or indeed anything stimulating. Continuously replace the thing you're getting stimulation from with another, slightly less stimulating thing, until the thing that is left is sufficiently nonstimulating that stopping and accepting the void feels manageable.

I went from putting speed in my morning coffee to eating a pound of chocolate a day.

Re: Drug users use a lot of drugs

#102

Post by dbt00 »

emptysongglass wrote: post #99
newbie789 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know exactly because I managed 0 possible access for a long time, so temptation was low. About a year after I quit, I made a new friend. He was a nice guy, seemed normal, but one day he casually mentioned that he occasionally used stimulants including amphetamines. I cut off all contact with him immediately (as did all of my close friends. It’s a good example of support in this case.) I guess I was able to re…

I feel bad for the guy who got ostracized by you and your entire friend group because he occasionally did speed and admitted to it. I understand your situation but I also think at some point you need to be able to stand on your own two feet without taking such drastic measures. Strength is both being able to walk away and then to say no in the face of temptation. I say this as someone who abused drugs when I was youn…

I think people need to do what they need to do to survive, and if that means not being friends with someone, that other person will have to get by with other friends.

Re: Drug users use a lot of drugs

#103

Post by newbie789 »

emptysongglass wrote: post #99
newbie789 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know exactly because I managed 0 possible access for a long time, so temptation was low. About a year after I quit, I made a new friend. He was a nice guy, seemed normal, but one day he casually mentioned that he occasionally used stimulants including amphetamines. I cut off all contact with him immediately (as did all of my close friends. It’s a good example of support in this case.) I guess I was able to re…

I feel bad for the guy who got ostracized by you and your entire friend group because he occasionally did speed and admitted to it. I understand your situation but I also think at some point you need to be able to stand on your own two feet without taking such drastic measures. Strength is both being able to walk away and then to say no in the face of temptation. I say this as someone who abused drugs when I was youn…

That’s a great point of view and in retrospect, so do I. It wasn’t a great thing to do and I’d probably had a more humane way of eliminating a friend. I just did what I could at the time.

Re: Drug users use a lot of drugs

#104

Post by anticodon »

brutal_chaos_ wrote: post #61
sharken wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Must admit the specifics of doing drugs is not that interesting to me, it's more interesting to ask the question: How does someone stop doing drugs?

A strong desire to quit and a big support network (family, friends, recovery centers, etc). We tend to look down on addicts, when in fact, we probably should be looking to help. And the more help there is, the better chance someone will have quitting/recovery. Support also means real support, not a parent there because they have to and so they have disgust on their face, nope nope nope, that can make things worse.

I have a friend who's an addict and he's becoming impossible to talk to. Not about drugs, just about anything. He doesn't want any help, and he starts to live in his own reality. When we meet in a group of friends he doesn't listen to anyone. He can talk non-stop for hours until everybody around is tired from his gibberish. But he doesn't listen to anyone in a sense that feels very selfish. For example, when someone is telling an interesting story, he won't listen and he would make dumb offending jokes.

It feels like drugs made him dumb and also he is living in some kind of parallel reality. It's becoming harder and harder to connect.

Also, in his reality it's perfectly ok to consume drugs, he's also constantly offering to share the experience with all people he meets.

It's sad situation and looks desperate because he's aggressively against any help, he consider himself better than others because of the drugs (he is sure they allow him to "see" more than we see), and he doesn't listen to anyone.

Re: Drug users use a lot of drugs

#105

Post by newbie789 »

anticodon wrote: post #104
brutal_chaos_ wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A strong desire to quit and a big support network (family, friends, recovery centers, etc). We tend to look down on addicts, when in fact, we probably should be looking to help. And the more help there is, the better chance someone will have quitting/recovery. Support also means real support, not a parent there because they have to and so they have disgust on their face, nope nope nope, that can make things worse.

I have a friend who's an addict and he's becoming impossible to talk to. Not about drugs, just about anything. He doesn't want any help, and he starts to live in his own reality. When we meet in a group of friends he doesn't listen to anyone. He can talk non-stop for hours until everybody around is tired from his gibberish. But he doesn't listen to anyone in a sense that feels very selfish. For example, when someone…

That fucking sucks. I don’t really have much to say about that other than if you’ve got a contact email, let me know.

Re: Drug users use a lot of drugs

#106

Post by stordoff »

cwkoss wrote: post #72
heisenbit wrote: post #54

Drug processing in the body can sometimes be surprising. I learned recently about first pass effect which means the drug heads first to the liver and only what passes through is available to the body. So if one ups the dose and the liver processing is saturated a double dose can deliver much more punch than two single ones. The body has many non-linear features and extrapolating several orders of magnitude is often n…

Yep, this is why "boofing" (intrarectal) dosing has found rising popularity in the 'research chemical' scene over the past couple decades. The liver's effects on drugs is really fascinating. Grapefruit has a chemical that can inactive liver enzymes, so some drug addicts regularly drink grapefruit juice to 'get more bang for their buck'. Plain old black pepper (in large doses) inactivates a different enzyme IIRC. Ther…

> i have a morbid fascination with the 'frontier non-medical drug use' communities

I share this interest. I've very little interest in using drugs recreationally myself, but find reading about it oddly fascinating, particularly the novel agents. Taking a chemical when you only have the vaguest idea of what it _may_ do crosses a line I would never want to, but I sympathise with the feeling of wanting to know the effects and being willing to take that risk.

> broad cheap availability of novel benzos

The RC benzos have always concerned me. I'm prescribed a benzodiazepine (20mg temazepam), and it usually induces a mild feeling of wanting more, even though there are no noticeable recreational effects at that dose (at least for me). None of the opiates I've ever been prescribed have done the same, for comparison. It felt obvious to me that using the novel benzos without medical oversight could easily lead to a rapidly escalating problem. A while ago I saw a poster seeking a synthesis for a benzo they claimed did not cause tolerance, and my first thought was this can only end poorly. I don't believe there was ever a follow-up post, but I sincerely hope they avoided any problems.

Re: Drug users use a lot of drugs

#107

Post by forgingahead »

emptysongglass wrote: post #99
newbie789 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know exactly because I managed 0 possible access for a long time, so temptation was low. About a year after I quit, I made a new friend. He was a nice guy, seemed normal, but one day he casually mentioned that he occasionally used stimulants including amphetamines. I cut off all contact with him immediately (as did all of my close friends. It’s a good example of support in this case.) I guess I was able to re…

I feel bad for the guy who got ostracized by you and your entire friend group because he occasionally did speed and admitted to it. I understand your situation but I also think at some point you need to be able to stand on your own two feet without taking such drastic measures. Strength is both being able to walk away and then to say no in the face of temptation. I say this as someone who abused drugs when I was youn…

Cutting out toxic influences is generally a good thing for most people. In OP's case, temptation of drug use and the risk of backsliding was too much, so yes, important and excellent that they cut out that person.

Re: Drug users use a lot of drugs

#109

Post by cwkoss »

loves_mangoes wrote: post #82
cwkoss wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> pretty good for dulling a mosquito bite until it fades away naturally Applied topically? Or in the sense that the anesthetic disassociative effects dull most sensations?

I did try rubbing some crushed powder to the bite, but could not notice any effect before I got impatient. Ketamine on my tongue has an instant numbing effect, but to my knowledge nothing transdermaly. I took it insufflated, the short duration of action and general anesthesia makes it decently practical. (Of course it sounds pretty silly to recommend Ketamine for a small everyday itch. But that's what I had on hand,…

Haha, I love that you tried that. Thanks for sharing and expanding the frontiers of pharmacology. New off-label uses for drugs are popping up every day! :D

Re: Drug users use a lot of drugs

#110

Post by robocat »

kingTug wrote: post #31
rogerclark wrote: post #2

"The most important reason meth makes your teeth fall out and ruins your life but Adderall just makes you study a little harder is that the meth users are taking 50x higher doses" The reason meth addicts have bad teeth isn't because of the dosage of the drug. It's because stimulants make you want to eat candy and drink sugar water, because meth addicts lose track of oral hygiene in favor of doing meth or something el…

This isn’t correct. Meth, when smoked, is incredibly toxic. The toxic smoke that causes “meth mouth”

People get meth mouth even if they don't take it orally (or smoking) i.e. your thesis is wrong AFAIK.
Post reply on HN