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iOS 15 Humane

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Re: iOS 15 Humane

#21

Post by londons_explore »

dannyw wrote: post #20
deanclatworthy wrote: post #18

I love this, but do we really think that Apple also isn't using engagement with your phone as an internal success metric? If people use apps less often, they are probably using less apps. If people use less apps, Apple's revenue drops. Unlike Apple's attack on privacy which makes them a differentiator in the marketplace, only at the expense of others, I don't see what's in it for Apple to do this?

Apple still primarily makes money from hardware sales. They'd rather get you working out, buy an airpod pro, and subscribe to fitness+ than spend time on Facebook.

True, but there are still people who don't use their phone much, and therefore don't really mind if they have a 5 year old iPhone.

Apple intentionally making that group of users bigger could be very bad for revenue

Re: iOS 15 Humane

#22

Post by Someone »

chimen wrote: post #16

Next thing I’d want my router to shut down the internet due to mindless browsing. Also shut it down when it’s too late…like 11pm sounds enough.

You can do that second part on iOS. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208982:

“When you schedule downtime in Settings, only phone calls and apps that you choose to allow are available. Downtime applies to all of your Screen Time-enabled devices, and you get a reminder five minutes before it starts“

Re: iOS 15 Humane

#23

Post by eyelidlessness »

danappelxx wrote: post #4

This concept is really well put together, and I would love to see it come to life. That said, this quote made me laugh out loud > For example if you're struggling to use Tinder responsibly, you could create a condition that you can only use the app while FaceTiming with a friend.

Look it’s a pandemic. I don’t know if people are still having Tinder parties but they might be having Tinder Zooms?

Re: iOS 15 Humane

#24

Post by wickedsight »

sneak wrote: post #9
ishitatsuyuki wrote: post #6

Things like infinite scroll and autoplay should come with an option to turn them off and I think that’s well presented. Those are kind of dark patterns after All. Though, Apple probably isn’t in the position to enforce that; we unfortunately need to live with Jailbreak tweaks for them. But the rest of the post feels so off. Constantly nagging yourself to close social media? Reminding yourself that social media is a w…

Infinite scroll is not a dark pattern. Dark patterns are explicitly designed to conflate or deceive. Infinite scroll just gives people more of what they want. Turns out, most people, most of the time, want the gorbage.

Alcoholics want booze, but many of them wake up every day thinking today they won't drink anything, but they still do.

Infinite scroll is a dark pattern in the way it gives you something your addicted brain wants, and therefore you think you might want, but it's actually just a way for them to get more money.

Personal anecdote: I hardly read more than the front page on HN, even though I consider HN one of the least 'time wasted' sites I use, because I usually learn a lot because of it. On Reddit I just keep scrolling even though I often consider it wasted time in hindsight. I don't want HN to get infinite scroll and I deleted the Reddit app from my phone.

Re: iOS 15 Humane

#25

Post by KingMachiavelli »

Apple really is in a unique position. However their are a few areas in which they drastically lack and TBH it is not App privacy disclosure - everyone knows Facebook is physically, mentally, and spiritually bad /s

I was quite anti-Apple for a long time on the basis of it being a luxury brand that restricts the freedom of its users.

But it recent years as phone performance has become less of an issue meaning Apple's older phone models are basically just as good as mid-tier current year Android, the luxury label is not as extreme.

Additionally the M1 launch which basically transformed their 'real' computer laptop from being overpriced and literally hot garbage - to the best* dollar for dollar mobile machines.

So basically Apple has the hardware and software polished and at a great value but they have a very integrated ecosystem which means a single flaw breaks the whole cohesion.

Primarily, E2E encryption is broken by design because iCloud backup are not E2E and you can't know if any message recipient has iCloud enabled. Sure you could just use Signal/Matrix/etc but it breaks the cohesion - does your Apple watch get Matrix notification with the same polish as iMessage?

Also iMessage is also still iOS only right? Which is just insane. For a time Blackberry messenger was the best thing but it didn't last partly because it was vendor locked.

Whild I can ignore limits of phone OS's for the sake of security; MacOS is sort of anti-user to the point that third party projects like Homebrew work day & night to fix the ecosystem. Luckily now Nix(OS) on Darwin is an option for a more complete ecosystem but it is still other people fixing Apple's mistakes for free which is just unbearable.

Considering Microsoft runs Github which I believe Hombebrew and NisOS still both use extensively and I believe they do so for free or very cheaply(?) In any case, Apple seems like a poor steward of open source compared to other FAANGM(?) companies... maybe I am wrong but the G, M, & F seem more active than the Apple. Apple did just kill/abandon CUPs etc.

Again, I would just like to be wrong. Maybe you can already use Linux with Apple devices very well and maybe turning off iMessage and iCloud solves the E2E problem. But it just seems like Apple is 90% of the way there but refuses to do the last 10%.

I guess what I mean to say is Apple has some real problems to fix of its own before it should critize other apps even more. For instance, does iMessage come with a warning about broken/nerfed E2E? Or that mobile Safari has an anti-user and anti-standards implementation of PWAs (again last I check)?

Re: iOS 15 Humane

#26

Post by deanclatworthy »

dannyw wrote: post #20
deanclatworthy wrote: post #18

I love this, but do we really think that Apple also isn't using engagement with your phone as an internal success metric? If people use apps less often, they are probably using less apps. If people use less apps, Apple's revenue drops. Unlike Apple's attack on privacy which makes them a differentiator in the marketplace, only at the expense of others, I don't see what's in it for Apple to do this?

Apple still primarily makes money from hardware sales. They'd rather get you working out, buy an airpod pro, and subscribe to fitness+ than spend time on Facebook.

Apple made 72.3B revenue from app sales in 2020. This is not an insignificant amount of money, regardless of where it stands next to their hardware sales.

Furthemore, if people are using smartphones less maybe they'll realise they don't need an expensive smartphone to check whatsapp...

Re: iOS 15 Humane

#27

Post by alwillis »

deanclatworthy wrote: post #18

I love this, but do we really think that Apple also isn't using engagement with your phone as an internal success metric? If people use apps less often, they are probably using less apps. If people use less apps, Apple's revenue drops. Unlike Apple's attack on privacy which makes them a differentiator in the marketplace, only at the expense of others, I don't see what's in it for Apple to do this?

Apple did announce ScreenTime API, which enables developers to do some of the things mentioned in the article.

Plus Apple’s revenue isn’t based on app engagement; it’s hardware and services primarily. Using some apps less doesn’t impact the big picture of subscriptions (Music, iCloud+, News*, etc.) or hardware purchases like a new iPhone, AirPods, etc.

Re: iOS 15 Humane

#28

Post by rho4 »

Meanwhile, today Microsoft gifted us a brand new "News & interests" area in the taskbar lobbying for our focus and attention. Successfully... I even had to google how to turn it off, and write this comment.

Re: iOS 15 Humane

#29

Post by [deleted] »

wickedsight wrote: post #24
sneak wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Infinite scroll is not a dark pattern. Dark patterns are explicitly designed to conflate or deceive. Infinite scroll just gives people more of what they want. Turns out, most people, most of the time, want the gorbage.

Alcoholics want booze, but many of them wake up every day thinking today they won't drink anything, but they still do. Infinite scroll is a dark pattern in the way it gives you something your addicted brain wants, and therefore you think you might want, but it's actually just a way for them to get more money. Personal anecdote: I hardly read more than the front page on HN, even though I consider HN one of the least '…

[deleted]

Re: iOS 15 Humane

#30

Post by dvfjsdhgfv »

sneak wrote: post #9
ishitatsuyuki wrote: post #6

Things like infinite scroll and autoplay should come with an option to turn them off and I think that’s well presented. Those are kind of dark patterns after All. Though, Apple probably isn’t in the position to enforce that; we unfortunately need to live with Jailbreak tweaks for them. But the rest of the post feels so off. Constantly nagging yourself to close social media? Reminding yourself that social media is a w…

Infinite scroll is not a dark pattern. Dark patterns are explicitly designed to conflate or deceive. Infinite scroll just gives people more of what they want. Turns out, most people, most of the time, want the gorbage.

> Dark patterns are explicitly designed to conflate or deceive.

Well, yes - normally you are scrolling to the bottom of the page. And when you reach the bottom, you stop, or you need to explicitly click "Next". But with infinite scroll, there is no bottom. You never reach a final or semi-final point. It's designed to maximize your time spent on the website/app, not for your well-being or helping you achieve your original aim - which was to absorb a limited set of information, not scrolling mindlessly forever.

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