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Apple is threatening to remove Fanhouse unless they give 30% of creator earning

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Re: Apple is threatening to remove Fanhouse unless they give 30% of creator earning

#141

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

adventured wrote: post #133
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #107

The antitrust case against Apple is so overdue it's embarrassing. What I don't get is people who defend it. Imagine Microsoft taking 30% of every purchase you make online because you used their OS to get there. Then would the defenders admit it's an obvious abuse of a monopoly? What makes it different for Apple?

> Imagine Microsoft taking 30% of every purchase you make online because you used their OS to get there. Then would the defenders admit it's an obvious abuse of a monopoly? What makes it different for Apple? Yeah I'll defend against that setup. Your comparison makes no sense. Apple isn't taking 30% of every purchase you make online because you use an iPhone to shop on Amazon or Walmart. Why would I need to imagine a…

>The comparison would be: imagine if Microsoft had a dominant software store tightly bound to Windows, and for any software applications sold through that store - for use on your Windows machine - Microsoft took a 30% cut of that sale.

Well for that comparison to work, we'd also have to assume Microsoft disabled installing unsigned software as well. Which is what Apple does today.

>Apple isn't taking 30% of every purchase you make online because you use an iPhone to shop on Amazon or Walmart

They try on digital goods, this is why Amazon has disabled buying ebooks in the iOS app, and asks you to open your web browser instead [1].

[1] https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=...

Re: Apple is threatening to remove Fanhouse unless they give 30% of creator earning

#142

Post by taylodl »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #112
slver wrote: post #72

The only thing I don't understand is why these people push apps on the AppStore and then whine about the rules they've agreed to. Apple's 30% is infamous. It's not something obscure about iTunes use in nuclear weapons of mass destruction.

Because they have a monopoly over 50% of the population, and many businesses quite literally have to participate or they would cease to exist. Do you think it'd be legal for Microsoft to charge a 30% fee on every transaction you make on Windows?

They do not have a monopoly. 50% or more of the population chose to be in Apple's walled garden. They knew the rules, they knew what they were buying. Some people don't want to be in Apple's walled garden, so they buy Android. Businesses tend to prefer Apple's ecosystem because sales data has shown that Apple's customers tend to pay more for applications and services - so they're coveted customers.

Re: Apple is threatening to remove Fanhouse unless they give 30% of creator earning

#143

Post by throwaway3699 »

insert_coin wrote: post #128
echelon wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They control computing for 50% of Americans. Not games, not movies. All computing. And all of the commerce around that computing. You have to pay their tax to interact with Apple customers in any way. Who are Apple customers? 50% of Americans. It's a protection racket and it's anticompetitive af. Furthermore, you can't use your own software stack / runtimes, have to dance to arbitrary rules, and can't deploy or updat…

Yeah, computing is not a market. I get you are trying to win an easy sentimental argument, but making your own market definitions will not make them a monopoly. Apple sells products, not "computing". In no market where they sell products they have a monopoly.

How is computing not a market??

Computing covers many of the things people do in a modern society, including:

- Communication

- Banking

- Investing & trading

- Finding information

- Applying to jobs

In what world is that not a critical market?

Re: Apple is threatening to remove Fanhouse unless they give 30% of creator earning

#144

Post by devit »

insert_coin wrote: post #128
echelon wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They control computing for 50% of Americans. Not games, not movies. All computing. And all of the commerce around that computing. You have to pay their tax to interact with Apple customers in any way. Who are Apple customers? 50% of Americans. It's a protection racket and it's anticompetitive af. Furthermore, you can't use your own software stack / runtimes, have to dance to arbitrary rules, and can't deploy or updat…

Yeah, computing is not a market. I get you are trying to win an easy sentimental argument, but making your own market definitions will not make them a monopoly. Apple sells products, not "computing". In no market where they sell products they have a monopoly.

They have a monopoly on devices running iOS apps, and a monopoly on channels to deliver mobile software to anyone who uses an iPhone (i.e. either their App Store or Safari).

Re: Apple is threatening to remove Fanhouse unless they give 30% of creator earning

#145

Post by rabuse »

stefan_ wrote: post #119
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #25

Serious question, why does everything require an app? Why can't the same thing be accomplished via the mobile web? I get so tired of being prompted to install apps when you could just *show me the damned web page*. Anything that requires speed can be done via webassembly, and sure, anything like games can ship a native app.

Oh, I know this one! Because Apple made Safari the new Internet Explorer to force you into their walled garden where they extract their tithe.

I can't stand building for iOS Safari. It is the pain-point in so much of my development.

Re: Apple is threatening to remove Fanhouse unless they give 30% of creator earning

#146

Post by twostorytower »

tshaddox wrote: post #73
hellisothers wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a subscription service and you’re not paying for individual content a-la-cart? We can play wack a mole all day and find special carve outs by Apple but “what about-ism” isn’t the (or their) point, it’s did they expect this to happen or not. Surely they knew at some point the tax man would come with absolute certainty so crying (hyperbolic) foul now is… disingenuous.

I’m pretty sure Netflix and other streaming services give 30% to Apple if you buy the subscription through Apple. Don’t they?

They don't allow you to sign up in the app. You have to sign-up and subscribe via the web. App is login only.

Re: Apple is threatening to remove Fanhouse unless they give 30% of creator earning

#147

Post by filoleg »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #141
adventured wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine Microsoft taking 30% of every purchase you make online because you used their OS to get there. Then would the defenders admit it's an obvious abuse of a monopoly? What makes it different for Apple? Yeah I'll defend against that setup. Your comparison makes no sense. Apple isn't taking 30% of every purchase you make online because you use an iPhone to shop on Amazon or Walmart. Why would I need to imagine a…

>The comparison would be: imagine if Microsoft had a dominant software store tightly bound to Windows, and for any software applications sold through that store - for use on your Windows machine - Microsoft took a 30% cut of that sale. Well for that comparison to work, we'd also have to assume Microsoft disabled installing unsigned software as well. Which is what Apple does today. >Apple isn't taking 30% of every pur…

>Well for that comparison to work, we'd also have to assume Microsoft disabled installing unsigned software as well.

Look no further than Xbox Store and how well you can run unsigned code on it.

Sure, you can buy a physical game copy, but there are two issues with that:

1. Diskless versions of consoles are becoming more commonplace, thus removing that option.

2. If you buy retail, it is still a cut to Microsoft, just a smaller one. Because you pay the same price for physical as you do for digital, except instead of the entire cut going to MSFT, a part of it goes to the retail establishment selling it.

And before someone says "well, this is a gaming console, not a phone/computing device", I will say that it has apps (youtube/streaming services/etc.), it has a web browser, and plenty other functionality not related to games.

So I am struggling to draw a hard line here as to why it is ok on Xbox, but not ok on smartphones (as long as there are commonplace alternatives available that would prevent it from being a monopoly, and Android is one such commonplace alternative).

EDIT: I stand corrected, apparently you can run unsigned code officially on new Xbox consoles, and I should have picked a better example. Thanks to people in the comments correcting me on this, as I genuinely had no idea you could run unsigned code on Xbox. Despite this, I believe my general argument still stands though, because the same situation with transaction cuts is happening with Sony's and Nintendo's consoles, except you cannot run unsigned code on those.

Re: Apple is threatening to remove Fanhouse unless they give 30% of creator earning

#148

Post by gmaster1440 »

nickthegreek wrote: post #71
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #25

Serious question, why does everything require an app? Why can't the same thing be accomplished via the mobile web? I get so tired of being prompted to install apps when you could just *show me the damned web page*. Anything that requires speed can be done via webassembly, and sure, anything like games can ship a native app.

onlyfans is doing just fine in this space. They didn't want to worry about app store TOS or % cuts and decided to be web only.

While a good example of a web app that could've been a native app, there's a strong argument that they didn't decide to be web only as much as forced due to the nature of their content never being allowed in the app stores.

Re: Apple is threatening to remove Fanhouse unless they give 30% of creator earning

#149

Post by Jcowell »

slver wrote: post #88
smoldesu wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that this customer you're describing doesn't exist. It does provide a marginally higher amount of friction to use a non-native payment method, but there aren't any users out there cancelling their Netflix subscription because now Netflix gets 100% of the proceeds instead of 70%. At that point, you're inadvertently sabotaging the very company that you're trying to support, because your hardware manufactur…

How can you honestly tell a person who just shared their opinion "you don't exist"? I also would never enter my credit card in an app, UNLESS it's a huge, well-trusted brand (which this influencer app isn't). Many people wouldn't bother. The whole point of Apple handling this is that you trust Apple to have more clue than your average startup full of monkeys.

This is a big thing for me. I really do not want to give any vendor raw Payment information if I can help. Would much rather do so though a service like Apple Pay/Google Pay. And then only have to worry about that one vendor when they get a data breach then a dozen vendors and deal with a dozen data breaches.

Re: Apple is threatening to remove Fanhouse unless they give 30% of creator earning

#150

Post by devit »

drivebycomment wrote: post #30

Per https://fanhouse.app/ , "Fanhouse is the place where creators can monetize their social media personalities by posting freely about their lives, like a finsta, close friends story, or private alt, while connecting and engaging with their top fans." So they built a platform, where they take some cut for themselves, while allowing other people to sell some digital contents on their platform. Apple built a platform,…

You can easily use another platform instead of Fanhouse (users can easily go on another website or app).

You can't easily use another delivery method for apps to iPhone users (that would require iPhone users to also buy and carry an Android device, which is a massive hassle).

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