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Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

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Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#491

Post by toast0 »

ncr100 wrote: post #232
toast0 wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To break it up effectively, you'd want to separate out at least a few different business units and restrict the businesses the units can enter as well as the relationships between the units. Big things would be Advertising separate from other things and bound to only advertising, and require it contract with the other units on public and FRAND terms. Web Search would be another unit, and it would be barred from devel…

> Android would need to be a separate unit Android is a separate unit, AFAIK.

It's a business unit now, but it would need to be a separate company in my proposed breakup. AFAIK, Google doesn't operate Android as a wholy owned subsidiary, it's just part of Google, Inc which means any separation is at the whim of management; in a wholy owned subsidiary, there would be some structural barriers at least.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#492

Post by dragonwriter »

amadeuspagel wrote: post #451

If we ignore all this culture war bullshit for a minute there's a really fascinating issue here. The concrete issue is flight search. When you google "flight from a to b", rather then seeing search results linking to websites for flight search, the first thing you see is the results of Google's own flight search. Is that wrong? What about image search? When you search for "skyline berlin", you'll see images of berlin…

> There are only two clear, non-arbitrary rules: Search engines are only allowed to show a list of links, or search engines can show whatever they want.

Those rules are just as arbitrary as all the possibilities in between.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#493

Post by wyattpeak »

mbreese wrote: post #482
kdmccormick wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, obviously, you as a user are free to find another search engine. However, you as a creator are not free to find another universe in which the leading search provider does not use their position of influence to squash any competing products by ranking their own products higher.

But that’s not an argument for making Google a public utility. That’s an argument that they are being anti-competitive. That’s a whole other discussion. And even then, the question isn’t are competitors being harmed, but are consumers being harmed. So long as their products are free, it’s hard to argue that consumers are suffering harm. (I haven’t heard privacy brought up as a legal measure of harm to consumers, whic…

> So long as their products are free, it’s hard to argue that consumers are suffering harm.

Is it? There's an increasing antipathy towards the amount of data Google collect, many people on this forum, if not so much in the world at large, would consider that harm. If Google's hiding from me a better service that's also free, or even has an acceptable cost, I'd consider that harm.

It's only hard to argue there's no harm if their product is identical to its competitors, which is basically never true.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#494

Post by SilverRed »

ipaddr wrote: post #483
SilverRed wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You can find a smartphone for under 250 at any phone store. These phones all run android or have no features which are required in the modern age. The OP point is that avoiding google is a privilege many do not have. >Small business are finding success through facebook Your competitors are advertising on facebook and google. If you want to compete you have no choice but to do both.

I have no idea where you get the type of iphone you describe online for $250.00. If I was an apple guy I would want to buy new and pay full price so apple had more money to make the products I love. I didn't upgrade since 2013, and since getting my new phone I found no new features important or even that useful. Having more memory allowed me to download more. Bigger screen doesn't fit in the pocket. Features like spl…

This is exactly the point. There is no $250 iphone. So unless you can afford a much more expensive phone, your only option is a privacy invasive google phone.

Being able to chose not to use google is a luxury here. Therefor google is a monopoly for these low income people and also a utility since having a phone and the services that come with it are essential.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#495

Post by toomanybeersies »

amadeuspagel wrote: post #451

If we ignore all this culture war bullshit for a minute there's a really fascinating issue here. The concrete issue is flight search. When you google "flight from a to b", rather then seeing search results linking to websites for flight search, the first thing you see is the results of Google's own flight search. Is that wrong? What about image search? When you search for "skyline berlin", you'll see images of berlin…

> Why start a new company, if google can just take over everything?

It seems more and more common these days that people start companies specifically with the sole intention of being acquired by Google (or another large tech company).

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#496

Post by BLKNSLVR »

pjc50 wrote: post #236
akiselev wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wells dug with modern equipment are a perfectly good alternative to municipal water - they can free one from over-regulated or poorly managed utilities. Even in the outskirts of California metros it's sometimes the only option without shelling out hundreds of thousands for extensions. DuckDuckGo, on the other hand, is just Google with bangs, an insignificant spec compared to the latter. Edit: DuckDuckGo US market sha…

> Wells dug with modern equipment are a perfectly good alternative to municipal water ... in certain geologic areas. And this doesn't work if you live in an apartment. I do feel like this is a big example of the "why don't you just" discussion from last week.

"perfectly good alternative"

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#497

Post by sumedh »

anders_p wrote: post #464
foolfoolz wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no one is forcing you to use google. you could always pick a different one if you want different results

You completely missed the point of the comment. Google is stealing ideas and products, that they know are viable through the metrics they gather from the search data. Then they implement those products and embed them ABOVE the search results. Effectively killing off the competitors, who invented and build the original products. HOW are developers free to avoid Google killing off their businesses like that?

> Google is stealing ideas and products, that they know are viable through the metrics they gather from the search data.

Doesnt Walmart and Amazon do that as well, looking at the data and then making their own in house products?

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#499

Post by lupire »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #481
amadeuspagel wrote: post #451

If we ignore all this culture war bullshit for a minute there's a really fascinating issue here. The concrete issue is flight search. When you google "flight from a to b", rather then seeing search results linking to websites for flight search, the first thing you see is the results of Google's own flight search. Is that wrong? What about image search? When you search for "skyline berlin", you'll see images of berlin…

Apparently, Google Flight Search is not even close to the best alternative.1 https://www.frommers.com/slideshows/848046-the-10-best-and-w... This is interesting because I always thought Matrix from ITA Software, a company Google acquired in 2010, was quite useful. Wonder if links to Skiplagged get subjugated in Google SERPs. If Google thinks it can replace other websites by providing better alternatives, that's great…

Users can check, Bing, Common Crawl, or even the other 9 links on the first page of Google Search for more search results, no?
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