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Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

dispatch.com

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Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#361

Post by QasimK »

supernova87a wrote: post #307
varispeed wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People turn out to irrationally not want smart meters. Some people may be irrational, but smart meters are a huge privacy concern - the electricity company can figure out your patterns from the power usage and the "shape" of it. This is the reason why I don't want a smart meter. Disclaimer: I actually was involved in building firmware and management software of smart meters.

How do you defend against the argument that it's just a matter of degree? I can tell from your old spinning mechanical meter that you're at home and not on vacation. That's personal information. Why is a smart meter so different?

You cannot tell from your old meter because it does not submit meter readings every minute (or whatever the configuration is) because it does not have an internet connection.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#362

Post by jpitz »

asddubs wrote: post #316
supernova87a wrote: post #212

A big problem with software and people who write software (often) is that software doesn't like all the ways that human beings misbehave, change their minds, don't have immutable states, and don't fit into the categories you build for them. So any system that has a duty to serve everyone eventually ends up with an operational component that has almost as much human interaction and problem solving required as the soft…

one reason I've heard against smart meters is that it would make it easy for power companies to start charging non commercial users for apparent power rather than real power, as a way to indirectly raise prices.

Why would you need a smart meter?

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#363

Post by zackees »

avs733 wrote: post #166
Buttons840 wrote: post #34

> the lawsuit seeks a legal declaration that Google is a "common carrier," like phone, gas and electric companies, which must provide its services to anyone willing to pay its fee. How can something on the internet be a common carrier when the internet itself is not a common carrier?

Because bad faith arguments don't necessitate logical consistency. The motivation here is they want to regulate Google for political purposes, not that they want to regulate utilities better. If you have questions, Dave Yost's political donors are public information: https://www6.ohiosos.gov/ords/f?p=CFDISCLOSURE:48:0::NO:RP:P...

...because Google decided that entire classes of people will be kicked off their systems if they have the wrong political opinion.

Despite the fact they promised in their IPO they would never do this.

“Don’t be evil”

“Organize the worlds information and make it Universally Accessible and useful”.

Now they (and Facebook and Twitter) are banning political candidates they don’t like AROUND THE world.

Getting Google and big tech to not act like a weaponized foreign influence operation not “political”. It’s ensuring a free market of ideas and equal access.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#364

Post by frosted-flakes »

syshum wrote: post #305
pcmoney wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have multiple choices for water, dig a well, buy it from the local grocery store. Same for sewage because self composting toilets exist. Also electricity isn't a utility just use a stationary bike as a generator or buy solar panels... Just because you have multiple choices doesn't mean something is/isn't a utility. Its pretty arbitrary. They also aren't talking about Google products (most of which are completely…

I am not aware of any city or town that has utilities and allows property owners to opt out and dig a well or put in a septic, Maybe you could use composting toilet however you would still be required by law to hook up and maintain a connect to the public water and sewer system or the city would condemn your home

And if you are currently on a well and your municipality brings sewer or water service down your street, you are usually required to connect to them and decommission the septic system and well.

(I've heard that you can sometimes keep the well for irrigation purposes, but the house cannot be connected to it and the water cannot go down the drain.)

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#365

Post by colordrops »

entropicdrifter wrote: post #67
colordrops wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could be very difficult or impossible to access some accounts that use the email address for two factor authentication. And these are typically the most critical accounts.

I mean, that's really on the user for not setting up more than one 2FA method for their highly critical accounts

That's for properly engineered services. There are many services that won't grant access without your email after auth has expired.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#366

Post by zackees »

babypuncher wrote: post #144
epigen wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How can something on the internet be a common carrier when the internet itself is not a common carrier? Because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean that it shouldn't happen. Maybe Google is the last straw that leads to proper governance of utilities in the public's interest.

The problem is that the Republicans trying to declare tech companies "common carriers" pretty much lied through their teeth 4 years ago when they argued that ISPs are absolutely not common carriers, in opposition of overwhelming popular opinion to the contrary.

ISPs aren’t censoring people, Big Tech is, and BigTech were always exempt from all net neutrality laws.

So your comment is factually wrong.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#367

Post by idiotsecant »

shkkmo wrote: post #318
supernova87a wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's only a matter of degree. And at every level someone can complain. So where do you draw the line? Watching a meter spin or reading it once a month you can tell if someone is on vacation. Isn't that equally private and personal information?

It is a matter of degree, but that degree is not small. Anytime you decrease the interval, you need to justify the commensurate loss of privacy. You can't just handwave away these concerns like posters in this thread are doing. A rough inference of which months might involve vacations (data about which is probably already being sold from other sources) is far less invasive than a daily record of your sleep cycle. Wit…

...You say from your personal wiretapping device.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#368

Post by sneeuwpopsneeuw »

supernova87a wrote: post #212

A big problem with software and people who write software (often) is that software doesn't like all the ways that human beings misbehave, change their minds, don't have immutable states, and don't fit into the categories you build for them. So any system that has a duty to serve everyone eventually ends up with an operational component that has almost as much human interaction and problem solving required as the soft…

An Example for your Example. Yes i'm one of those people who tried to keep his old electricity meter the longest time possible. I have 36 solar panels installed on my roof and the old disk meter just rotated backwards when I was not using all that electricity during the day. The new meter, that i could only delay a year or 2, is electronic and does not give me anything when I push energy to the net all day. The government in my country can give you money for that energy but that would be the raw price without any tax and the energy you use later on the day still has tax on it so that does not really help, The tax is also 80 to 90% of the price.

So I hope that gives some perspective why people may prever to keep an old system around and not be forced by a big company to change it.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#369

Post by mansion7 »

babypuncher wrote: post #165
mansion7 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They may start doing so, if said providers start banning and censoring people based on political beliefs as Google does.

I don't think I've seen anyone get banned from any major platform for their political beliefs. It has always been for hate speech, inciting real-world violence, or spreading blatantly false misinformation that lead to incitements of violence (such as the unfounded claims that the election was stolen). Funny how none of the Republicans pushing this censorship narrative batted an eye last summer when Facebook was takin…

This is the reason that is given, that you have chosen to accept.

The catch is, they label their own violence as speech, and their opponents speech as violence, conveniently.

Hidden camera interviews with numerous employees of the multiple tech monopolies in question reveal that not only do they in target people for censorship based upon their political beliefs and political speech, and in the service of the political parties to which they also overwhelmingly donate, but they do so with glee.

The actions of Facebook, Google, Twitter in their selective banning, deplatforming, and other algorithmic weaselry is often indistinguishable from an in-kind donation directly to the DNC.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#370

Post by falcolas »

InvertedRhodium wrote: post #341
labcomputer wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but those not-irrational reasons are locale-specific. I've never heard of someone self-reporting the meter reading here in the US. The meter still keeps a local log of how much energy was used, so worrying about being framed for using too much energy still feels a bit irrational to me. OTOH, smart meters allow the utility to charge TOU rates, which helps even out the load on the grid. It benefits the utility, o…

I just don't want the timing of my electricity consumption to end up being used as evidence against me for growing cannabis. Feels pretty rational from my perspective.

Or, have them raid your house on the suspicion of growing MJ, when you’re doing a crypto coin (or something similar; folding proteins?)
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