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Why Can't Computing at the Heart of Bitcoin Be More Useful?

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71–80 of 151 posts

Re: Why Can't Computing at the Heart of Bitcoin Be More Useful?

#71

It is useful if you consider having a non-governmental/internet native currency a useful thing. If you don't see any value in that, it's gonna be hard to justify that computation.

It's not just non-governmental currency (in fact, it's rather crappy if regarded purely as e-currency), it's also basic infrastructure for decentralized trust. Currency is simply the most basic application of a fully distributed blockchain.

Re: Why Can't Computing at the Heart of Bitcoin Be More Useful?

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inefficient compared with what? Gold requires a ton more energy. As does the existing banking system. Bitcoin uses less electricity than Christmas lights and provides a completely electric, transparent, uncensorable currency.

What other currency are people fanatic about HODL'ing? It's not a currency.

What other currencies or monetary goods are being developed and realized in real-time?

If gold was invented today, what would it look like, and how would it function?

Re: Why Can't Computing at the Heart of Bitcoin Be More Useful?

#74
post #49

If it's useful, it's less costly. If it's less costly, it is less secure.

Costly doesn't mean that it has to waste actual resources. The chance of winning a block could be made to be proportional to the amount of bitcoin deposited into some smart contract, instead of proportional to the amount of electricity wasted. The outcome would be exactly the same, and nothing would be wasted.

From my short life as a tech guy, I have already realized that there is no 100% secure system. Companies try to hide information and avoid leakages; complicated systems of governance try to avoid malpractices while minimizing bad actors. In the end, it is always a dance between attackers and defenders. Bitcoin has the dumbest way of protecting itself from attackers. But by being the dumbest way, it is also the most predictable. It is like instead of coming up with sophisticated methods of protection that no one knows its weaknesses on the long run, Bitcoin only focuses on building a bigger wall. And that's why I feel more confident.

Re: Why Can't Computing at the Heart of Bitcoin Be More Useful?

#75

I worked 10 years for a Bank. A lot of the mainframe batch processing were unnecessary. A lot of the mainframes running Cobol could be replaced by some smaller hardware and code written in java and C. There are a lot of people working around bad written system or bad written laws/rules, to make the things work. My point is: Wouldn't be fair to compare the amount energy to run bitcoin vs the amount of energy to run th…

Yes, it would be fair. However, it is not a comparison that Bitcoin even comes close to winning (Bitcoin uses orders of magnitude more energy), so you instead see takes like "you forgot to account for the energy cost of aircraft carriers!" to try to make the comparison more favorable to Bitcoin.

Re: Why Can't Computing at the Heart of Bitcoin Be More Useful?

#76
post #50

FWIW there's a lot of half baked arguments going around the space, so a few comments for anyone genuinely interested in evaluating facts: - The usage of electricity in Bitcoin is a feature not a bug. It's designed to use the most democratic and ubiquitous commodity avalible. Any nation/individual can evaluate their electrical opportunity cost and at any point make the decision to dedicate resources to towards re-bala…

The biggest trouble here is that pollution externalities of power generation are very commonly not priced into the cost of electricity, so generic incentives to consume energy also very commonly mean incentives to pollute more.

> Random Ex: Texas power outages during summer peak AC usage. It's infeasible to spin up and spin down extra generators to meet spikes in demand. #Bitcoin fixes this by providing excess supply a discounted demand during normal hours that can be routed away during peak needs else where. Ditto for renewables.

Could be, but are the price signals really in place to make this out work in practice in many places? How many electric utilities have so far succeeded in charging people more at all during peak demand times? (maybe other than electric customers they've identified as industrial)

Edit: To be clear, I agree that there is such a thing as surplus power generation and usefully smoothing out demand, I just don't agree that we're in a scenario where cryptocurrency mining is predominantly used or predominantly incentivized to be used that way.

Re: Why Can't Computing at the Heart of Bitcoin Be More Useful?

#77
post #49

If it's useful, it's less costly. If it's less costly, it is less secure.

Costly doesn't mean that it has to waste actual resources. The chance of winning a block could be made to be proportional to the amount of bitcoin deposited into some smart contract, instead of proportional to the amount of electricity wasted. The outcome would be exactly the same, and nothing would be wasted.

Sounds like you just reinvented Ethereum proof of stake :)

Re: Why Can't Computing at the Heart of Bitcoin Be More Useful?

#78
post #21

Bitcoin is an extremely inefficient computing platform. There's no silver lining to BTC, it's simply a moderately big, potentially huge mistake in the history of modern technology.

Decentralized projects will always be less efficient than centralized ones why are we suddenly so surprised? The value of decentralized system far outweighs the cost of maintaining it especially when it comes to money. Could bitcoin be more efficient? Absolutely, but to call it big mistake of modern technology is just silly.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not surprised about it. The history of computing is full of inefficient, dodgy systems.

Re: Why Can't Computing at the Heart of Bitcoin Be More Useful?

#79
post #66

It is useful if you consider having a non-governmental/internet native currency a useful thing. If you don't see any value in that, it's gonna be hard to justify that computation.

There are far less costly ways for the environment to achieve the same results. This is simply unjustifiable, when thousands of people are actively running the planet to the ground to make a quick buck in an online casino.

Great, what's your proposal for the alternative then?

Are you talking about the stock market? Or the companies that have already more or less destroyed the planet to extract every last bit of profit?

Re: Why Can't Computing at the Heart of Bitcoin Be More Useful?

#80

I worked 10 years for a Bank. A lot of the mainframe batch processing were unnecessary. A lot of the mainframes running Cobol could be replaced by some smaller hardware and code written in java and C. There are a lot of people working around bad written system or bad written laws/rules, to make the things work. My point is: Wouldn't be fair to compare the amount energy to run bitcoin vs the amount of energy to run th…

> Wouldn't be fair to compare the amount energy to run bitcoin vs the amount of energy to run the banking system? Hasn't this comparison been made over and over, and every time it comes out in favor of traditional banking by a mile ?

could you provide any link or resource for further reading? I never saw anything like that and I would like to know what they are taking into account in this comparison.
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